Garbatellamike

nice one Eric we need some black humour in these depressing times

amideislas

I think this is a rather dogmatic theme. You might remember this:

... And Greece is so much better off for it.

Whichever camp you subscribe to, the only way Greece can avoid complete collapse is to get free money somewhere. And nobody really wants to fork over €100 bil or more, only to find Greece returning to the table again in a couple of years in the same boat.

There is no saving grace and no breath of fresh air in Greece's future, no matter what happens. I say get it over with and let them make their own way. That's probably their most optimistic option.

Red Eric

Did you just take 5 words out of a post of mine in order to deliberately misrepresent what I said?


Isn't there a site rule about that?

Garbatellamike

Eric I found those 5 words in your post to be the funniest thing on the thread so far and you wrote them not me.

You have repeatedly supported his pov even when he has been wrong, abusive or plain ignorant. The one thing we know for sure is that he is the most inept finance minister ever and quoting his blogs as evidence in an argument is, not to put too fine a point on it, utterly hilarious.

Odious, inept and abusive - yes.

Right - not so far and, if I may mix metaphors, this particular ignoramus is highly unlikely to change his spots.

Garbatellamike

Looks like the threat of being put on the Euro naughty step for 5 years has made the Greek Government see sense at last and there is a tentative agreement in place at the Summit.

Definitely a smart move by Tipsy to sack the odious clown of a finance minister and replace him with someone half competent as an agreement is now in sight.

It is a shame it seems it will be more extend and pretend but that is a better option than driving the country to immediate bankcruptcy, which was where Syriza was heading. I would have liked to see real growth-inducing reform but that was obviously going to be beyond Syriza.

In sum it seems that when asked to choose between his 2 conflicting election promises (staying in the Euro and rejecting austerity) it seems that Tipsy has decided that austerity isn't a bad thing after all as it will help him stay PM for longer....

amideislas

It's not over yet, Tipsy still needs parliament approval, and if approved, the public will likely put them all out to pasture. No confidence.

Even if this deal goes through, I seriously doubt the next bailout will be approved.

Garbatellamike

I see what you're saying Ami and there was a reason I used the words "tentative agreement" - defintely still a lot of things that could go wrong.

Tipsy needs to get Parlimentary approval to renewed austerity by Weds by the sound of things and I was musing on whether he may get it through with help from the centre-right and centre-left rather than from many of his own MPs who will be rabidly opposed to this sort of compromise.

amideislas

I predict that a deal will be done. However, it's not a solution, but only a band-aid stuck over a profusely bleeding wound.

Anyway, back to my original point: More austerity carries big political risks, as is playing out right before our eyes. With the shift to the left, Spain's spending is already growing, and if the left takes control, we'll be back to the same old story. Podemos was hoping for a precedent of free money from the troika so they can make the same demand and start spending it. They may yet get their wish.

What happens when this deal runs out is anyone's guess. But there is no pretty scenario.

bigglesworth

Ami it will go through.

Somehow. France simply cannot afford the hit if the ECB has to crystallise the losses on the Greek bailout. If memory serves, in 2010 Germany were in for 40 billion (peanuts for them) and France for 75 billion -completely impossible for them with public debt already admitted at 97.5 percent and Christ alone knows what if all those amortised losses at SNCF, RFF, and CPAM are taken into account.

Arms will be twisted, Swiss (or rather Luxembourg) Bank accounts filled. Future pensions promised or withdrawn.

Such a wonderful way of reaching decisions in the modern world . Lock them in a room to conduct negotiations. If after seven or eight hours they have not reached agreement, serve them a seven course dinner and don't let them leave before thay have come to an agreement - which by some weird co-incidence is the one the Commission have drawn up.

Democracy European style. Don't you just love it?

bigglesworth

Think I will just copy the last post for use again next year

Garbatellamike

yep extend and pretend!

Charismatic

The EU got exactly what they wanted and then some. They lost sight of the objective however.

The big winners are Greece, by borrowing more money at low rates from people who should know better they have managed to avoid paying tax a little bit longer. Greece has successfully created an alternate financial reality for itself within Europe.

Garbatellamike

Not sure I agree that Greece is a big winner - I have it down as a goaless draw at the moment.

InVinoVeritas

The site rule #18 says you should not alter or modify another member’s quotes in such a way as to misrepresent or change the context of the original post.

I'm not moderating this forum but these five words do seem to rather encapsulate your thinking, Eric.

It is good to know that someone outside of Greece thinks that Varoufakis has got it right, although Eric may be the token, non-Greek supporter.

Garbatellamike

In fairness there are also 2 other Marxist economists (Stiglitz and Krugman) outside Greece who agree with Varoufakis in every way. Of course they, and Eric, are outnumbered by pretty much everyone else in the world.