jasonlec

jasonlec

Oops, sorry, just wondered if they do the fast track sparkie courses in oz like they do over here,

Dougie

What the 6weeks in college then here's your card now get out there and show the industry what you can't do and bring the rate down in the mean time!!

Hope not, there should be no fast tracking in any trade IMHO a 4 year on site and in college apprenticship should be served regardless of previous experience in other fields.

Dougie

jasonlec

Grrr!!! They do my head in too mate!!

Alphawolf

Ahh the bitter brigade!!!

We aint all bad and believe me there's enough time served sparkies out there that are bringing the trade down from what I've experienced but the worst are the kitchen and bathroom fitters I'll give you that!!

Dougie

Yeah cause they are just the part P crap thats why.

And judging by your comments about the "Bitter Brigade" I will belive that you are one of the fast tracked sparks I was referring to earlier ?



So tell me ...........................................How on EARTH can someone that has spent 4-12weeks / worth of hours , in a classroom / workshop under classroom conditions be expected to be at the same level of that of a electrician that has served a 4 year apprenticship on a wide variety of different jobs under the instruction of fellow experienced time served electricians ?


Dougie

daviec33

The sooner there's some sort of mandatory licensing for Electrical work in the UK the better!.

Part P and the Building Regs in Scotland are a sham...The only good thing up here in Scotland is that the SJIB and SELECT (Scottish ECA) won't entertain NVQ 2 or Domestic Installers and only accept NVQ 3 and 4 year apprenticeship, there's no improver grade here either.

I feel for my English brothers though, my mate down south runs his own firm and says some of the chancers he's come across are a nightmare!.

If you want to retrain as a spark do it properly!

Alphawolf

They can't!!! However 4 years on after I left the Navy and did my quals, including 2391 which alot of sparks don't have/can't pass/struggle to pass, I run my own business, carry out work to a high standard by time served sparkies standards and always get good references and word of mouth repeat work so I guess I must be doing something right.
At 35 years old with a house to pay for and other debts I didn't have the luxury of going back to college for 4 years so I got off my ass and did my courses/ coupled with 5 years carrying out Electrical maintenance in the RN and worked alongside qualified sparks first before I started to work on my own.
This can be a dangerous game and I agree that experience is key, but so is common sense and intelligence and only one of these can be gained you either have the other 2 or you don't, I would put myself against a time served spark any day of the week, no offense to other sparks, I just feel I am at that level but like you say it has taken me at least 2 years to get to this.
All I'm saying is don't label us all the same, try to be judgemental because as I've said I've lost count of the number of jobs I've been called out to to correct experienced sparkies shoddy work.
I don't profess to know everything but unless you've deen doing it 40 years plus I don't think anyone can and not even then probably.

jasonlec

Have since found out that they do not wish to accept the re-train "electrical engineers qualifications hanging out of my arse , on paper that is" Dougie, due to the fact that they cant get their heads round the, not served a four year apprenticeship sketch.
Which is a bloody good thing in my opinion, 'cause I do honestly believe that the re-train fast track wallas are a total bag of shite, cant teach an old dog new tricks.
If you are telling a 30 plus year old how to do installation work in a certain way, the way you want it done, its hard work. You will always get the, "I always do it this way, yada yada yada blah blah"
Teenage apprentice, no problem, teach them how you want it done, show them how to do things the way you like them to be done and they will do it, due to the fact you are teaching them, no back-chat unless they are a complete dummy.
As for the going out and putting "electricians" work right, domestic? Its not rocket science ffs, you prob following the part p 6 week flash numpties about.

Alphawolf

So what you're saying is if you don't train as an Electrician straight from school then don't do it at all, I bet you're a pleasure to work for with an attitude like that!
Have you seen the majority of school leavers these days, all they want to do is send texts all day, drink beer in the park and learning a trade is way too much hard work for most of them although I won't tar them all with the same brush.
As for the teach a 30 something crap you're talking out of your ass mate, if they've never done it before how can they say I always do it this way, sounds more like you feel uncomfortable trying to train a grown man but bossing kids around is much easier, thats how you come across!!
Anyway you've obviously had bad experiences with some boil in the bag sparks, fair enough, but don't tag me with em, and the work I put right as been mostly industrial site work and domestic, if what you're saying is right these guys shouldn't be making mistakes!

jasonlec

School leavers I train are spot on.
Teaching 30+ is a pain in the ass, I know, bin there done that.
Dont do the bossing about sketch, if they didnt want to do the job I would not have set them on in the first place.
As posted by Dougie earlier, guys like you are keeping the jib union pay rates down, I would not set you on in a billion years, thanks to you & your ilk for ruining a good trade.
Time served jib/sjib approved electricians will never ever recognize a six week multi paper based so called electrician. The only logical way to learn a trade is to do an apprenticeship, simples!
Knock the chip off your shoulder & change your tag to notaspark.
And I am not your "mate"guys like you have ruined the trade.

minty01

Either way you got into this trade experiance is the key.

But to say unless you started from school and was an aprentice is crap and the people that harp on about it are bitter and twisted as all they have ever done is one thing.

I have met more worthy sparkies that have re trained and got the experiance later in life (and yes im still talking years of experiance) than i have met good this is all ive done all of my life sparkies.

The fact of the matter is its electrics not rocket science and anyone who puts there mind and time to it can do it.

kennymac

so Mags1972 you have 1 of those apprentices that texts all day i thought i was the only 1.

jasonlec

Hope not, there should be no fast tracking in any trade IMHO a 4 year on site and in college apprenticship should be served regardless of previous experience in other fields.

Dougie [/QUOTE]

Nuff said

daviec33

I'm gonna add my twopenny worth in (again)

Anyone who's read my posts in the past will see I'm an ardent supporter of the time served, apprentice/college route that is traditionally four years.

I'm no supporter of the boil in the bag sparks (4,5,50) day courses or whatever it is.

I think there does have to be alternate routes into the industry for career changers or people with previous electrical experience.

What I think we need in the industry is a body to offer these routes and let the retrainers or career changers train to an equal level that we all did!.

Let's be fair, someone who's worked with in an electrical trade within HM Forces knows a thing or two about electrical work. I've worked with more than a few ex RAF and REME sparkys. All were good lads, but weren't really up to speed with how things are done in "civvy street". They know the basics, they've done the theory. A structured route for entry will help these guys and the industry (overall raising of standards).

Abolish fast track.....make it multi track...horses for courses....no experience then 4 years mate...x amount of experience then maybe two years....y amount of experience then maybe a year!.

Just my thoughts.