FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
Jun 19th 2020, 2:07 pm
#1
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Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Midlands. UK
Posts: 342
FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
I'm completing the application form for my Wife's FLR(M). We're applying via Category D, Savings Route, in excess of the minimum £62.5k and should not need to provide anything regarding monthly costs.
However, after completing the previous question about cash savings, the amount, and other details, the next page is asking:-
HOME DETAILS
Do you own or rent your home?
Answer: OWN
Mortgage Payments: £0.00
Then there are two tick boxes as attached. One for monthly housing costs and the other for council tax costs.
Rather confused here. Do we leave the first box unticked and only tick the second box to show understanding, as it mentions?
Many thanks, MP
However, after completing the previous question about cash savings, the amount, and other details, the next page is asking:-
HOME DETAILS
Do you own or rent your home?
Answer: OWN
Mortgage Payments: £0.00
Then there are two tick boxes as attached. One for monthly housing costs and the other for council tax costs.
Rather confused here. Do we leave the first box unticked and only tick the second box to show understanding, as it mentions?
Many thanks, MP
Jun 19th 2020, 2:39 pm
#2
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2010
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 9,662
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
You do not need to provide anything for this question.
As the form says "you only need to provide this information is you are exempt from meeting the income threshhold"
YOU are applying under Cat D- Savings.
It's is very badly worded
As the form says "you only need to provide this information is you are exempt from meeting the income threshhold"
YOU are applying under Cat D- Savings.
It's is very badly worded
Jun 19th 2020, 5:35 pm
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Midlands. UK
Posts: 342
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
It's horrendous, isn't it. Feels more difficult than entry clearance sometimes
Sep 9th 2020, 6:59 pm
#6
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
Sorry to thread hijack -- I didn't want to open a variation on the same question
We're in a very similar situation (category D application, cash savings only route for the maintenance requirement), except we rent rather than own.
Am I right in thinking that we should not only avoid ticking both boxes here, but also not add details as to whether we rent or own, and the monthly expense?
Or should we choose the appropriate rent/own and monthly cost, but NOT check the boxes?
Sorry for being a bit dim. I'm second-guessing every step!
We're in a very similar situation (category D application, cash savings only route for the maintenance requirement), except we rent rather than own.
Am I right in thinking that we should not only avoid ticking both boxes here, but also not add details as to whether we rent or own, and the monthly expense?
Or should we choose the appropriate rent/own and monthly cost, but NOT check the boxes?
Sorry for being a bit dim. I'm second-guessing every step!
Sep 10th 2020, 2:35 am
#7
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
Sorry to thread hijack -- I didn't want to open a variation on the same question
We're in a very similar situation (category D application, cash savings only route for the maintenance requirement), except we rent rather than own.
Am I right in thinking that we should not only avoid ticking both boxes here, but also not add details as to whether we rent or own, and the monthly expense?
Or should we choose the appropriate rent/own and monthly cost, but NOT check the boxes?
Sorry for being a bit dim. I'm second-guessing every step!
We're in a very similar situation (category D application, cash savings only route for the maintenance requirement), except we rent rather than own.
Am I right in thinking that we should not only avoid ticking both boxes here, but also not add details as to whether we rent or own, and the monthly expense?
Or should we choose the appropriate rent/own and monthly cost, but NOT check the boxes?
Sorry for being a bit dim. I'm second-guessing every step!
Question: If sponsor lives in a council housing with enough rooms (is council housing a form of public recourse?) does your application get denied?
Sep 11th 2020, 3:11 pm
#8
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Joined: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
Redsoxfan could be -- it feels like the form changes according to previous responses given? For what it's worth, this question appears for me in the 'Finance' section, directly after providing details of the bank account and checking the boxes to confirm that we'll provide bank statements and a declaration of the source of the savings.
I'm not sure why I'm getting this question if it doesn't apply, but it could be to cover cases where someone is using cash savings and is also exempt if that's a thing
It does look like these questions should apply to people who fall under the provisions of Appendix FM-SE paragraph 12, which begins:
That doesn't apply to us, as we're using Category D cash savings only and don't fall under any of these categories of applicant.
Further down in 12A, though, I see:
Presumably, that's nested under 12 for a reason and only applies to those that described in paragraph 12?
I'm not sure why this is being surfaced for us given the form seems to skip most parts not needed based on previous answers and we've given no indication of falling under paragraph 12.
The bullet points are equally confusing. While it says:
That's directly followed by:
It's hard to know if there's an implied AND or an OR between those bullet points. Adding one or the other would be very helpful!
In our case, my wife is the applicant and is listed on the council tax bill, so the second bullet applies, but the first doesn't (she isn't exempt from meeting the income threshold).
Presumably, we need to respond to the first question as to whether we rent or own and what that costs us (doesn't seem to be a way past it), but going by SanDiegogirl 's reply upstream, can safely ignore both check boxes which follow.
I'm not sure why I'm getting this question if it doesn't apply, but it could be to cover cases where someone is using cash savings and is also exempt if that's a thing
It does look like these questions should apply to people who fall under the provisions of Appendix FM-SE paragraph 12, which begins:
12. Where a person is in receipt of Carer’s Allowance, Disability Living Allowance, Severe Disablement Allowance, Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit, Attendance Allowance or Personal Independence Payment or Armed Forces Independence Payment or Guaranteed Income Payment under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme or Constant Attendance Allowance, Mobility Supplement or War Disablement Pension under the War Pensions Scheme, or a Police Injury Pension, all the following must be provided:
Further down in 12A, though, I see:
- (e) Where the cash savings of the applicant or their partner, parent, parent’s partner or sponsor are relied upon, paragraphs 11 and 11A apply.
- (f) The monthly housing and Council Tax costs for the accommodation in the UK in which the applicant (and any other family members who are or will be part of the same household) lives or will live if the application is granted.
I'm not sure why this is being surfaced for us given the form seems to skip most parts not needed based on previous answers and we've given no indication of falling under paragraph 12.
The bullet points are equally confusing. While it says:
- you only need to provide this information is you are exempt from meeting the income threshold
- you are responsible for some housing costs such as rent, mortgage or council tax
In our case, my wife is the applicant and is listed on the council tax bill, so the second bullet applies, but the first doesn't (she isn't exempt from meeting the income threshold).
Presumably, we need to respond to the first question as to whether we rent or own and what that costs us (doesn't seem to be a way past it), but going by SanDiegogirl 's reply upstream, can safely ignore both check boxes which follow.
Sep 12th 2020, 12:00 am
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 41
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
Redsoxfan could be -- it feels like the form changes according to previous responses given? For what it's worth, this question appears for me in the 'Finance' section, directly after providing details of the bank account and checking the boxes to confirm that we'll provide bank statements and a declaration of the source of the savings.
I'm not sure why I'm getting this question if it doesn't apply, but it could be to cover cases where someone is using cash savings and is also exempt if that's a thing
It does look like these questions should apply to people who fall under the provisions of Appendix FM-SE paragraph 12, which begins:
That doesn't apply to us, as we're using Category D cash savings only and don't fall under any of these categories of applicant.
Further down in 12A, though, I see:
Presumably, that's nested under 12 for a reason and only applies to those that described in paragraph 12?
I'm not sure why this is being surfaced for us given the form seems to skip most parts not needed based on previous answers and we've given no indication of falling under paragraph 12.
The bullet points are equally confusing. While it says:
That's directly followed by:
It's hard to know if there's an implied AND or an OR between those bullet points. Adding one or the other would be very helpful!
In our case, my wife is the applicant and is listed on the council tax bill, so the second bullet applies, but the first doesn't (she isn't exempt from meeting the income threshold).
Presumably, we need to respond to the first question as to whether we rent or own and what that costs us (doesn't seem to be a way past it), but going by SanDiegogirl 's reply upstream, can safely ignore both check boxes which follow.
I'm not sure why I'm getting this question if it doesn't apply, but it could be to cover cases where someone is using cash savings and is also exempt if that's a thing
It does look like these questions should apply to people who fall under the provisions of Appendix FM-SE paragraph 12, which begins:
That doesn't apply to us, as we're using Category D cash savings only and don't fall under any of these categories of applicant.
Further down in 12A, though, I see:
Presumably, that's nested under 12 for a reason and only applies to those that described in paragraph 12?
I'm not sure why this is being surfaced for us given the form seems to skip most parts not needed based on previous answers and we've given no indication of falling under paragraph 12.
The bullet points are equally confusing. While it says:
That's directly followed by:
It's hard to know if there's an implied AND or an OR between those bullet points. Adding one or the other would be very helpful!
In our case, my wife is the applicant and is listed on the council tax bill, so the second bullet applies, but the first doesn't (she isn't exempt from meeting the income threshold).
Presumably, we need to respond to the first question as to whether we rent or own and what that costs us (doesn't seem to be a way past it), but going by SanDiegogirl 's reply upstream, can safely ignore both check boxes which follow.
Last edited by Redsoxfan; Sep 12th 2020 at 12:04 am.
Sep 12th 2020, 1:43 am
#10
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2010
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 9,662
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
I can understand your confusion, when applying under savings, as to why this question of council tax and monthly housing costs should come up.
I don't remember these type of questions coming up by applicants when the hard copy form used to be completed.
As said by one of the respondents on this thread, the online form appears to ask questions based on your previous answers. However, this type of question is usually asked where an applicant is applying under Adequate Maintenance and is exempt from the financial requirements. In their case the sponsor needs to prove they have adequate income (including their benefits) to support the applicant, and in that situation they have to show housing costs
The original OP of this thread gave a screen shot of the question and based on the statement :"You will only need to provide this evidence if you are exempt from meeting the financial threshold" I still think you do not need to complete this section.
I don't remember these type of questions coming up by applicants when the hard copy form used to be completed.
As said by one of the respondents on this thread, the online form appears to ask questions based on your previous answers. However, this type of question is usually asked where an applicant is applying under Adequate Maintenance and is exempt from the financial requirements. In their case the sponsor needs to prove they have adequate income (including their benefits) to support the applicant, and in that situation they have to show housing costs
The original OP of this thread gave a screen shot of the question and based on the statement :"You will only need to provide this evidence if you are exempt from meeting the financial threshold" I still think you do not need to complete this section.
Sep 12th 2020, 2:06 am
#11
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,139
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
I can understand your confusion, when applying under savings, as to why this question of council tax and monthly housing costs should come up.
I don't remember these type of questions coming up by applicants when the hard copy form used to be completed.
As said by one of the respondents on this thread, the online form appears to ask questions based on your previous answers. However, this type of question is usually asked where an applicant is applying under Adequate Maintenance and is exempt from the financial requirements. In their case the sponsor needs to prove they have adequate income (including their benefits) to support the applicant, and in that situation they have to show housing costs
The original OP of this thread gave a screen shot of the question and based on the statement :"You will only need to provide this evidence if you are exempt from meeting the financial threshold" I still think you do not need to complete this section.
I don't remember these type of questions coming up by applicants when the hard copy form used to be completed.
As said by one of the respondents on this thread, the online form appears to ask questions based on your previous answers. However, this type of question is usually asked where an applicant is applying under Adequate Maintenance and is exempt from the financial requirements. In their case the sponsor needs to prove they have adequate income (including their benefits) to support the applicant, and in that situation they have to show housing costs
The original OP of this thread gave a screen shot of the question and based on the statement :"You will only need to provide this evidence if you are exempt from meeting the financial threshold" I still think you do not need to complete this section.
OP, it sounds like a bit of a nightmare! While I can't help with the online form as I haven't seen it, just be careful that you're not confusing 'maintenance requirement', which doesn't apply to you, with the 'financial requirement', which is what you're meeting with category D cash savings. As SDG has said, the maintenance requirement/adequate maintenance is only for people who are exempt from the 'normal' financial requirement - this is usually people receiving income support, and although they are exempt from the usual financial requirement rules they still need to show that they have enough income to meet their needs, hence the questions about housing and other costs.
Sep 12th 2020, 11:34 am
#12
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Joined: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 44
Re: FLR(M) - Savings Category D & Monthly Costs Question
I'm not the OP (sorry for thread highjacking!), but appreciate everyone who's weighed in here -- thank you!
For whatever reason, despite previous answers only indicating that we intend to use cash savings (and nothing to say we are exempt from the income requirement) I'm forced to fill in the rent/own part of the form originally shared by the OP, which now sits under the 'finance' section of the online form.
There's no longer any mention of maintenance or financial requirement (but I was definitely mixing the two up!), you just get served questions by whatever the branching/algorithm 'decides' comes next.
As there's no way to progress past this step I think we'll have to enter the 'rent' and leave the boxes unchecked. I'm considering starting over in case that resets anything, but going by confusion elsewhere around the same situation, maybe they've started asking this by default for Category D by design and because of some glitch.
For whatever reason, despite previous answers only indicating that we intend to use cash savings (and nothing to say we are exempt from the income requirement) I'm forced to fill in the rent/own part of the form originally shared by the OP, which now sits under the 'finance' section of the online form.
There's no longer any mention of maintenance or financial requirement (but I was definitely mixing the two up!), you just get served questions by whatever the branching/algorithm 'decides' comes next.
As there's no way to progress past this step I think we'll have to enter the 'rent' and leave the boxes unchecked. I'm considering starting over in case that resets anything, but going by confusion elsewhere around the same situation, maybe they've started asking this by default for Category D by design and because of some glitch.
