British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Old Nov 12th 2023, 8:20 pm
  #211  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Tashie
Hello,

I've been reading through the posts, the examples in the Home Office publications (Registration as a British citizen in special circumstances) and I'm fairly confident I may have a claim to Citizenship following the change in the law. I'd really appreciate the opinion of anyone who knows anything about my scenario, please. Currently I'm living in the UK on an Ancestry visa (going into year 3 shortly). I have no dependents on my ancestry visa as my children (both adults now) are both already British & living in England (their father is British, he was born in Northern Ireland). This is all probably less relevant in any case.

I was born in South Africa on 22nd January 1983.
My mother is a British Citizen, born in Umtali, Rhodesia on 1st March 1962 (I'm not sure what regulation applies but she's a British Citizen),
My maternal grandmother was born in Brighton, England on 13th August 1934 to British parents (both born in England),
My maternal grandfather was born in Birmingham, England on 7th July 1933 to British parents (both born in England),
My maternal grandparents were married in Southern Rhodesia on the 8th December 1959.

My father is South African, born in South Africa in 1957 to parents who were also both born in South Africa.

Is anyone able to provide further guidance (I think I have a rough idea from previous posts, just looking for absolute confirmation before I start the application process).

Thank you so much!
Hi,

So this isn't official nationality advice or anything like that, nor is it the absolute confirmation you're looking for. Just me trying to be of some help.

It sounds like your mother was born British, because her father being a man was able to and did pass his citizenship onto his daughter. Now based on that alone, your situation would be pretty much identical to (example 15 Hanif) in the latest HO guidance. Registration in that case would be reasonable. You've also got at least 2 successful applications in this thread, where the mother was born British to a UK born father.

Now if you were to apply based on your UK born grandmother, then your situation would be like ours. The mother wasn't born British due to gender discrimination in the old law, and was later registered under section 4 C. That too should result in an approval, like it did for us. You were born in 1983 like my sister, and I was born in 1987 in a foreign country, so we're covered under Section 9 of the BNA 1981.

Again though, it's more likely than not, your mother got her citizenship through her UK born father.

Maybe you'd benefit from submitting both your UK born grandparents' birth certificates. But I'm just not sure about that. Hope someone else could weigh in on that.

Also, I don't know if your mother's place of birth would have any bearing on your situation. I'm not familiar with Rhodesia's history.

Hope that helps a little.

Good luck..
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 10:36 am
  #212  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Hi Everyone


Finally received confirmation our application was successful In total from time of submitting the paperwork we waited roughly 7.5 - 8 months and from biometrics submission 5 months.

We applied under section 4L (Historical legislative unfairness) from with the UK. I was born in South Africa 1987, mother British by descent, grandfather British by birth.

Timeline was a follows:


21 Mar 23 - Submit postal application using ARD form (received 22 Mar 23)

25 Apr 23 - Application acknowledgement letter

08 May 23 - £80 Payment take

23 May 23 - Biometrics invitation email - PT 1

01 Jun 23 - Biometrics invitation letter - PT 2

04 Jun 23 - Attend biometrics appointment

30 Sep 23 - Emailed [email protected] to follow up on application.

20 Oct 23 - Response on follow up email. (We are sorry its taking longer than expected....etc)


07 Nov 23 - Requested return of documents (Online form)

15 Nov 23 - Decision letter and documents received in the same envelope (Letter dated 4 Nov)

We are currently waiting for the ceremony invite letter. The decision letter advised this should come through within 3 weeks of the date of the letter, if not, the [email protected] should be used to chase the invite. Ceremony is booked with your local council. I will update with how we get on with child applications, from what I understand in the guidance notes this application grants citizenship otherwise than by descent so might be as straightforward as just applying for a passport (not sure yet). If anyone else has done an application for a child born outside British territory following a successfully section 4L application Id be keen to hear your experience.

Tips:

- There is no need to pay an agent to do this application, this chain has all the info you need to submit an application independently. Its worth reading all 200+ posts as the law is covered comprehensively by the participants!
- Don't submit all your original documentation - We regretted doing this! Certified copies is fine, you can certify at the post office (UK).
- Be careful which box you tick on Q. 1.4, we ticked the incorrect one. They tried to charge our card over £1000, rather than the £80.


Thank you for all those that assisted and gave advise on our application. Hope this will help someone else get a positive outcome on their application.

Wishing everyone a lovely festive season.

Last edited by aartsuk; Nov 20th 2023 at 10:41 am.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 1:33 pm
  #213  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by aartsuk
Hi Everyone


Finally received confirmation our application was successful In total from time of submitting the paperwork we waited roughly 7.5 - 8 months and from biometrics submission 5 months.

We applied under section 4L (Historical legislative unfairness) from with the UK. I was born in South Africa 1987, mother British by descent, grandfather British by birth.

Timeline was a follows:


21 Mar 23 - Submit postal application using ARD form (received 22 Mar 23)

25 Apr 23 - Application acknowledgement letter

08 May 23 - £80 Payment take

23 May 23 - Biometrics invitation email - PT 1

01 Jun 23 - Biometrics invitation letter - PT 2

04 Jun 23 - Attend biometrics appointment

30 Sep 23 - Emailed [email protected] to follow up on application.

20 Oct 23 - Response on follow up email. (We are sorry its taking longer than expected....etc)


07 Nov 23 - Requested return of documents (Online form)

15 Nov 23 - Decision letter and documents received in the same envelope (Letter dated 4 Nov)

We are currently waiting for the ceremony invite letter. The decision letter advised this should come through within 3 weeks of the date of the letter, if not, the [email protected] should be used to chase the invite. Ceremony is booked with your local council. I will update with how we get on with child applications, from what I understand in the guidance notes this application grants citizenship otherwise than by descent so might be as straightforward as just applying for a passport (not sure yet). If anyone else has done an application for a child born outside British territory following a successfully section 4L application Id be keen to hear your experience.

Tips:

- There is no need to pay an agent to do this application, this chain has all the info you need to submit an application independently. Its worth reading all 200+ posts as the law is covered comprehensively by the participants!
- Don't submit all your original documentation - We regretted doing this! Certified copies is fine, you can certify at the post office (UK).
- Be careful which box you tick on Q. 1.4, we ticked the incorrect one. They tried to charge our card over £1000, rather than the £80.


Thank you for all those that assisted and gave advise on our application. Hope this will help someone else get a positive outcome on their application.

Wishing everyone a lovely festive season.
Congratulations Aartsuk, great news.

I follow your scenario and submitted a few weeks after you, so hopefully will hear myself in a few weeks.
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 2:33 pm
  #214  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

jmin
My application was approved!
Thank you so much!
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Old Nov 20th 2023, 4:16 pm
  #215  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Snowy45
Congratulations Aartsuk, great news.

I follow your scenario and submitted a few weeks after you, so hopefully will hear myself in a few weeks.
Fingers crossed for you Snowy45 ! Would be a nice for you to have an outcome before everyone at the home office disappears for Christmas.
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Old Nov 23rd 2023, 9:04 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

The company with which we are working for our Citizenship By Descent application (grandmother was born in Scotland) ticked Yes for item 1.1 ("Are you applying because you would have been or been able to become a British citizen but for historical legislative unfairness?), which we understand. But what is the difference between 1.1 and the two options under 1.4? Our advisors have checked No on both and I am trying to figure out why. We have asked, obviously, but I wonder if anyone here has any insights?
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Old Dec 9th 2023, 2:03 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Good day everyone

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge in this thread. It has been very encouraging to read and I believe I should qualify to become a British Citizen. My sister who is born in 1988 might have a slightly more complex case.

Please see the details below of my family tree:

Gareth(myself) Born 1986 South Africa
Catherine Born 1988 South Africa

Father Born 1952 South Africa In about 2011 Obtained British Citizenship through mother due to gender equality changes
Mother Born 1959 Northern Rhodesia (Zambia) British from birth and naturalized South Africa
Mother & Father Married October 1983 in South Africa

Paternal Grandfather Born 1918 South Africa
Paternal Grandmother Born 1925 England
Paternal Grandparents married 1948 in South Africa

Maternal Grandfather Born 1926 England
Maternal Grandmother Born 1928 England
Maternal Grandparents married 1952 in England

1. Do you believe I qualify due to historical legislative unfairness?
2. Does my sister Catherine have a case?

All insight and advise would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Gareth

Last edited by Garethlochhead; Dec 9th 2023 at 2:05 pm. Reason: Layout was incorrect
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Old Dec 19th 2023, 9:42 am
  #218  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by MOUK
Hello,

We've received our approval letters earlier today in an email from Sable International.

It's been an emotional afternoon, we're so grateful.

To those of you waiting, hope you get your good news soon.
Hi,

Just a quick update..

We attended our citizenship ceremony at the British embassy earlier today, and it was great.

Our approval letters were dated Oct. 19th, received in an email from Sable on Oct. 23rd, ceremony invite received on Dec. 14th, and ceremony held on Dec. 19th. So two months from approval.

Regards
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Old Dec 30th 2023, 1:18 pm
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by RichardRorty
The company with which we are working for our Citizenship By Descent application (grandmother was born in Scotland) ticked Yes for item 1.1 ("Are you applying because you would have been or been able to become a British citizen but for historical legislative unfairness?), which we understand. But what is the difference between 1.1 and the two options under 1.4? Our advisors have checked No on both and I am trying to figure out why. We have asked, obviously, but I wonder if anyone here has any insights?
1.1 is for those who would had an automatic claim to British citizenship or by having their birth registered at a British consulate. 1.4 would be if you would’ve been able to apply for British citizenship by making an application to the Home Office for naturalisation or registration as a British citizen.
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Old Jan 3rd 2024, 2:13 am
  #220  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Garethlochhead
Good day everyone

Thank you for the wealth of knowledge in this thread. It has been very encouraging to read and I believe I should qualify to become a British Citizen. My sister who is born in 1988 might have a slightly more complex case.

Please see the details below of my family tree:

Gareth(myself) Born 1986 South Africa
Catherine Born 1988 South Africa

Father Born 1952 South Africa In about 2011 Obtained British Citizenship through mother due to gender equality changes
Mother Born 1959 Northern Rhodesia (Zambia) British from birth and naturalized South Africa
Mother & Father Married October 1983 in South Africa

Paternal Grandfather Born 1918 South Africa
Paternal Grandmother Born 1925 England
Paternal Grandparents married 1948 in South Africa

Maternal Grandfather Born 1926 England
Maternal Grandmother Born 1928 England
Maternal Grandparents married 1952 in England

1. Do you believe I qualify due to historical legislative unfairness?
2. Does my sister Catherine have a case?

All insight and advise would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Gareth
also looking somewhat similar.

approved 4L parents via their grandmothers

the 83-88 great grandchildren looking to be registered or right to abode seem to be close to a case. The 83-88 have a grandfather clause of sorts but that’s as far as I’ve gotten. Only two other post anywhere online seem to address this. All recent due to the prerequisite of approved parent through the new law
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Old Jan 11th 2024, 2:23 am
  #221  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Just an update - I've gotten some good advice from some commenters on this thread and I just wanted to say that I had my British citizenship ceremony this week! I was an ARD/4L applicant. Thanks!
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Old Jan 11th 2024, 3:02 am
  #222  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Congratulations!!
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Old Jan 13th 2024, 2:25 am
  #223  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

I am applying to register as a British citizen under section 4L of the British Nationality Act 1981 (form ARD) and I am in the process of finalising my application.

The rules under which I would have otherwise automatically been entitled to British citizenship (but for the act or omission) are as follows (taken from the gov.uk website).

I was born outside the UK and all of the following apply:
  • I was born between 1 January 1983 and 30 June 2006
  • my father would have been a British citizen when I was born (and he was married to my mother at that time)
  • my father could pass on his citizenship to me (as he was given citizenship after applying for it in his own right (not based on having a British parent))

The form ARD guidance provides that I am required to state the legislation and section that I would have qualified under in the application. Is someone able to point me to the legislation and section that the above facts (relating to automatic British citizenship) relates to?
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Old Jan 13th 2024, 2:28 am
  #224  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

Originally Posted by Minimum_Watch1238
I am applying to register as a British citizen under section 4L of the British Nationality Act 1981 (form ARD) and I am in the process of finalising my application.

The rules under which I would have otherwise automatically been entitled to British citizenship (but for the act or omission) are as follows (taken from the gov.uk website).

I was born outside the UK and all of the following apply:
  • I was born between 1 January 1983 and 30 June 2006
  • my father would have been a British citizen when I was born (and he was married to my mother at that time)
  • my father could pass on his citizenship to me (as he was given citizenship after applying for it in his own right (not based on having a British parent))

The form ARD guidance provides that I am required to state the legislation and section that I would have qualified under in the application. Is someone able to point me to the legislation and section that the above facts (relating to automatic British citizenship) relates to?
I'm confused - your father was a citizen when you were born? Are you not already a citizen by descent now then? If not, why not?
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Old Jan 13th 2024, 1:57 pm
  #225  
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Default Re: British Citizenship by Discretion (CBR post 1982)

The basis of the application is that my father "would" have been a British citizen when I was born but for an act/omission of the Home Office (who took 22 months to process my fathers naturalisation application).

My father lodged his application for citizenship in person with Home Office in January 1990. He was entitled to citizenship by virtue of having been a resident and working in the UK for a number of years - he had leave to work and reside indefinitely.

It took the Home Office 22 months to process the application, with the naturalisation certificate issued in November 1991. The reason this affects me is that I was born in June 1991 - 17 months after my father submitted his application and I was therefore unable to qualify for citizenship as the child of a British subject at birth.

My father has made a Subject Action Request under the Data Protection Act 2018 from the Home Office which revealed no reason for the delay in processing his application. We have also made numerous FOI requests to the Home Office to ascertain average processing times for naturalisation applications of my father's type in the early 1990s but have not received anything useful under these requests (due to costs of obtaining this and/or the information no longer being available). Having exhausted these available options we are therefore unable to ascertain whether 17 months is an exceptional processing time so are proceeding with the section 4L BNA application (appreciate this may be a long shot!). We just need to correct legislative reference (for automatic rights to citizenship by descent) to finalise this.
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