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2 Years and hate it!!

2 Years and hate it!!

Old Aug 29th 2013, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Jeraboam
The "rotten heart" of our society is more in the non-unionised corporate world
The one where a business makes money and hires people, thereby providing them with a living?
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Old Aug 29th 2013, 4:37 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Aviator
The one where a business makes money and hires people, thereby providing them with a living?
You are right that good businesses are the key to our economy but much of the corrupt behaviour in our country lies in the greed of a few corporate leaders who appear to be having greater influence over our lives than the sometimes selfish and arrogant behaviour of a few union leaders. Neither group is free from blame, I just believe that the impact of bad decisions and behaviour by business leaders is having a greater impact on our society. Unions have lost much of their former influence and under increasingly right wing leaders their positive influence has declined.
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Old Aug 29th 2013, 5:15 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by rugbymum
I have had my post "eliminated" due to cuts then I was displaced by another(Canadian) employee (the system here allows employees who have lost their job due to cuts or elimination of posts - to take the the job of anyone less senior in TIME, but experience is NOT taken into the equation unless you both have the same time!! this is complete madness, especially as I was one of the nurses recruited from the UK during a time of shortage). I know readers will not believe that this is the absolute 100% truth but it is - it has happened to me twice already in a period of 3 months. My husband also thought I was joking as did many Canadian friends but sadly I am facing this prospect this week.

Blame the unions for that, they are the ones behind that and it doesn't just happen with nurses.



As for those who have been unkind to the poster suggesting that they should have done this research - I challenge anyone to have found out this little gem of info using research. You have to be here to actually understand the levels of discrimination towards foreign healthcare workers due to "seniority in Canada".

Not all experience from other countries is equal to Canadian experience so it makes sense that they put more stock in Canadian experience. Coming from the UK your experience should be considered equivalent but they cannot single out countries and therefore just lump all experience from outside of Canada as non-Canadian.



A my South African GP has said that she has several UK nurses suffering in the same way as myself, none of these are inexperienced a all - one is even a midwife (a profession that doesn't even appear to exist here) but none can get employment commensurate with their experience or qualifications. It is a truly sad state of affairs and I know it doesn't help Parwan, but remember you are not in the wrong, it is the system.
No, the system is not wrong. As I said, first blame the unions and second understand that not all experience is equivalent to Canadian experience. Since they cannot single out countries (people would cry discrimination and/or racism) they have to look at people/experience as either Canadian or non-Canadian.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 1:29 am
  #94  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by colchar
No, the system is not wrong. As I said, first blame the unions and second understand that not all experience is equivalent to Canadian experience. Since they cannot single out countries (people would cry discrimination and/or racism) they have to look at people/experience as either Canadian or non-Canadian.
So, substitute one form of discrimination for another.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 1:52 am
  #95  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Jeraboam
I have lived in Toronto for more than 50 years and understand why it is consistently designated by international organizations as one of the best 10-15 cities in the world in which to live. Maybe not the greatest tourist destination but a wonderful place to live and raise a family.
47 years and a big +1.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 2:41 am
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Jeraboam
Unions have lost much of their former influence and under increasingly right wing leaders their positive influence has declined.
Thankfully so.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 2:52 am
  #97  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Aviator
The one where a business makes money and hires people, thereby providing them with a living?
one where a business is in it for the love of money not to provide social responsibility to its employees

Business that has high overhead, troublesome workforce, unions, high wages etc or doesn't make money, it either closes down or moves elsewhere.

Simple its all about the love of money AKA greed, just like employees that see a business do good - they want more of the pie share
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 8:05 am
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by not2old
Simple its all about the love of money AKA greed
Entrepreneurial not greed. Perhaps greed on the part of those who want a larger piece of the pie without having taken any of the risk or long hours associated with starting and running a business.

Without business making money, there are no jobs, no tax base to pay for social services and the less well off are even less well off.

Organisations that are not out to make money are government, who pay employees very handsomely with wonderful benefits at our expense and charities.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 6:11 pm
  #99  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by rugbymum
Dear Pawan,

I am a UK Qualified RN, although (after I sat my Canadian Nurse Exam) I have been able to get employment as a nurse. I can completely understand your experience. I have 20 yrs UK nursing experience in London teaching 7hospitals and then a regional ICU. 7 as a Sister but over here I have to compete with new grads. My previous experience genuinely accounts for nothing here. I have had my post "eliminated" due to cuts then I was displaced by another(Canadian) employee (the system here allows employees who have lost their job due to cuts or elimination of posts - to take the the job of anyone less senior in TIME, but experience is NOT taken into the equation unless you both have the same time!! this is complete madness, especially as I was one of the nurses recruited from the UK during a time of shortage). I know readers will not believe that this is the absolute 100% truth but it is - it has happened to me twice already in a period of 3 months. My husband also thought I was joking as did many Canadian friends but sadly I am facing this prospect this week.

As for those who have been unkind to the poster suggesting that they should have done this research - I challenge anyone to have found out this little gem of info using research. You have to be here to actually understand the levels of discrimination towards foreign healthcare workers due to "seniority in Canada". I came over at a time of shortage, the immigration minister Jason Kenny was actually interviewed on UK TV appealing for experienced UK health professionals to move to Canada & I for one did my research and all was certainly painted as rosy in the garden for those with qualifications and experience. However in fact it could not (for me at least) have been further from the truth.

A my South African GP has said that she has several UK nurses suffering in the same way as myself, none of these are inexperienced a all - one is even a midwife (a profession that doesn't even appear to exist here) but none can get employment commensurate with their experience or qualifications. It is a truly sad state of affairs and I know it doesn't help Parwan, but remember you are not in the wrong, it is the system. Stay strong and true to yourself.

Hope something has already worked out for you.

Take care

Rugbymum.
It has absolutely nothing to do with being an expatriate or foreign, and everything to do with people not losing their jobs when they have worked for the company for longer than someone else - it's called seniority, not discrimination.

I know many nurse and non-nurse Canadian born workers in the local Hamilton Health Sciences Group. 5-6 years ago many of them were on a lay-off notice for well over a year due to cut backs.

It is a unionised environment and seniority counts for everything - so if your associate has been working there for a couple of years more than you and their job is cut, they are able to apply for any job in the system that is available and will get the appointment through seniority. It also sometimes enables them to 'bump' a more junior worker from their job - then the more junior worker can 'bump' someone else who has worked there for a shorter period (ad infinitum).

This is also something that goes on in some schools too.

I would suggest anyone who is going to work for a hospital ask to see and read the Union contract/ collective agreement - you will find seniority clauses in most of them.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 1:09 am
  #100  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Siouxie
It has absolutely nothing to do with being an expatriate or foreign, and everything to do with people not losing their jobs when they have worked for the company for longer than someone else - it's called seniority, not discrimination.

I know many nurse and non-nurse Canadian born workers in the local Hamilton Health Sciences Group. 5-6 years ago many of them were on a lay-off notice for well over a year due to cut backs.

It is a unionised environment and seniority counts for everything - so if your associate has been working there for a couple of years more than you and their job is cut, they are able to apply for any job in the system that is available and will get the appointment through seniority. It also sometimes enables them to 'bump' a more junior worker from their job - then the more junior worker can 'bump' someone else who has worked there for a shorter period (ad infinitum).

This is also something that goes on in some schools too.

I would suggest anyone who is going to work for a hospital ask to see and read the Union contract/ collective agreement - you will find seniority clauses in most of them.
It sucks but I agree that discrimination and foreigness have nothing to do with the suckiness.

Seniority won't always transfer between hospitals either so people go to the bottom again when they move. Part time workers' seniority is based on hours worked rather than time served.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 3:34 am
  #101  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Jeraboam
Seniority is a reasonable and fair way of respecting workers; competence is the fair way of deciding if one keeps a job and is respected by unions when fairly implemented..
Unfortunately, seniority and competence don't always go hand in hand.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 3:58 am
  #102  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by ann m
Unfortunately, seniority and competence don't always go hand in hand.
That is so true.

Although seniority is a strong factor here, I believe that in employing someone, if they have the experience and knowledge I need for my work place then I can employ them over seniority, but it has to be a watertight and appropriate decision. I need to ensure the safety of the people I am charged to care for, by allowing them to have someone with the experience and knowledge required to keep them safe look after them.

I am about to go through this dilemma and will be taking HR advice on the best way to support my decision.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 2:41 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by Jeraboam
Seniority is a reasonable and fair way of respecting workers; competence is the fair way of deciding if one keeps a job and is respected by unions when fairly implemented.
The bolded part is key.

It might sound a bit simplistic but the most senior is the most experienced and that should count for something when competence is involved.

I took my stepson for a blood test a few years ago. He's petrified of needles. He will literally fight off whoever is trying to take blood or vaccinate him.

All the younger - inexperienced - phlebotomists gave up on him and said come back when he was calm.

Yeah, right.

The next day I returned with him and an older, more experienced, more senior phlebotomist coped, took his blood, looked after him when he had his seizure and she was brilliant.

Seniority mattered. They are all competent but her seniority made the difference.

Of course, I am aware of situations where incompetent staff somehow remained in employment.

But as stated in the quoted post, if fairly administered, seniority can count for something.

Some things do come with experience rather than qualifications.
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Old Sep 15th 2013, 4:26 am
  #104  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by pawan.chopra
Hello All,

I moved to Toronto in year 2011. Being a health professional (Occupational Therapist), I thought Canada is a good prospect. Big Mistake!!

Still no job and completely confused as to why I even came here.

Some of my views about conditions here:

Driving: People here are generally rash drivers. Everyone is speeding!! Especially on Highway 401. Car Insurance is like an Extortion by Insurance companies. I initially paid $650 / month until I got my registration and through group plan (professional Association) got it down to $300 / month. Still a lot, as compared to UK !! They do not count UK driving experience for Insurance purposes.

Health care:
Dentists want to see you and clean your teeth whenever you visit them. NOT DUE TO GOOD HEART !! But because they want to make money out of your Insurance Company and believe me, if you do not have any plan, then GOD Bless you!!
Opticians will somehow find defects in your vision or may be want you to go for complete Retina Checkup for the same reasons.
Family Physicians (compared to GP in UK) wants you to have lab tests and scans even if you have standard constipation, flue like symptoms etc. I am sure by now you can understand the reason behind this.

Job Situation: I have 10 years of Experience as a Senior Therapist in UK working both in NHS and Social Services. Guess what!!
I am no better than a new graduate here!! No UK experience counted.
I know of someone here who graduated 2 months ago and she had 3 job offers. HELLO CANADIANS!!! How is your Canadian Education better than 10 years of Experience in UK !! Just to manage my Basic Expenses I applied for Customer Service job in Walmart and I had a phone call asking me if I will be interested in doing a cleaning job because I do not have " Canadian Experience" for the job applied for.

General: People here are arrogant!! No body cares for anyone unless until money is involved.

I have decided to come back to UK.

Do your Research properly prior to coming here or do not even bother applying for Immigration.

Good Luck, if you still want to come here.

Pawan
Head for the United States; the opportunities are more plentiful and the pay is darn site better.
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Old Sep 15th 2013, 11:46 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: 2 Years and hate it!!

Originally Posted by legaleagle1965
Head for the United States; the opportunities are more plentiful and the pay is darn site better.
So why, given your obvious dislike/hatred for all things Canadian, don't you take your own advice?
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