Atlantic Xpat

Life is busy, it helps to sum up things succintly.

rubberduckofdeath

Good posts

One of my best friends is a cop in Calgary and being a city, it's got its issues.

Doesn't stop me from wanting to live nearby though, it's definitely better than where I live and where he moved from.

Lemonfish

If class hasn't played a role in your life then either you've been lucky or you're middle class and don't notice it. Bit like I don't notice racial discrimination much as it doesn't affect me personally.

I enjoy the lack of class structure in Canada, its a real breath of fresh air. As someone who grew up in a home where neither parent had much education or a degree and having an east London accent, going to a red brick uni even in the mid-late 90s was a real culture shock.

Some people claim Britain is classless - I don't agree. Its more subtle than it was, but the middle/upper classes make sure they hang on to the jobs they want their kids to have. For example, using connections to get in, funding volunteer work and placements that kids without any cash can't afford, and more importantly knowing that its important for them to do that.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I've done well in the UK and in Canada and am comfortably middle class. But I don't forget the psychological barriers there are to some people struggling to do better than their parents did.

Also don't find it materialistic here. Much less so than life in London for sure.

canadian_bacon_boy

While it is true that the definitions of classes within the UK have blurred with the past 3 or 4 generations, they still exist. You are right the whole class thing is perpetuated by those that are proud of being working class. But it is also kept alive by the upper classes and many glass ceilings high up the corporate ladder.

People judge eachother within the first 20 seconds and within the UK our understanding of class is included within this unconscious assessment. In turn this either makes us accept people or reject them. It is all part of a collective identity. You may think class has played no role but you would be mistaken. These are one of the many "structures" that define how we are perceived. The agency or the extent you are break the influence of structures in relient on your charecter.

Whether your degree is more laudable is again colour by ones own values and beliefs. My view is that in the UK if you are born into a family within upper middle class or upper class you will goven the rights and privilages that come with that structure. Whether you are the brightest spark or a dimbo will not matter, the network of contacts and inclusiveness that your school, family or name provide will ensure you have a top flight career.

So in my view if you have had to fight for every success you have achieved without help, yes it would be more laudable. But that is only from my viewpoint based on values formed by someone who had to fight for everything.

Jingsamichty

Why on earth would anybody choose to leave Britain in order to be worse off somewhere else? That sounds to me like the actions of a quitter or a loser. And if you try to justify it by citing crime or immigration or chaviness, you're just proving that you're quitting because you don't like the game anymore.

Despite what might be happening at the moment, Britain is the greatest country in the world. It is unbelievably influential for such a small place. Emigrating to Canada for "quality of life for the children" is like saying you'd rather settle for year-on-year top-half-of-the-table safety in the Championship instead of fighting like a demented ferret to stay in the Premiership with the rest of the big boys.

If life were a game of Top Trumps, you can be sure that "growing up British" would comfortably trump "growing up Canadian."

rubberduckofdeath

canadian_bacon_boy

That is not exactly what every statistic from the U.N indicates. There are things I will miss in the U.K.

Some of the TV
British Countryside
Family

But not much else. Great it is not. Good it is and I hope it gets its greatness back one day.

Almost Canadian

Same apply in Canada. In fact, IMHO, Canada is way more nepotistic than the UK is. Ability counts less than knowing somebody.

cov-canuck

I'm curious why people assume they will be financially worse off in Canada.

We were both drastically underpaid in the UK. We owned our own home, but would unlikely ever be able to afford anything more. We had a meagre amount of savings, and were living just above paycheck to paycheck.

In Canada, our salaries are significantly higher. In fact, my starting salary was higher in Canada, and my salary has increased by 64% in 3 years (working at the same company the whole time).

We are significantly better off financially in Canada. We will likely have our home paid off before I am 40, and with a significant amount of savings/investments, something we would have struggled with in England.

We don't have children yet, and I think we will get a lot of grief when they do arrive for taking them out of England and away from the extended family, however I personally don't like the influence the extended family would have on them. We're now 3000 miles away from OH's parents and 1500 miles away from mine, and that suits me just fine.

dbd33

The existence of a class system in the UK suggests that society there is less materialistic than in Canada where there's no class and all that counts is money. If one is middle class in the UK that's an argument for staying there, unless one can get enough money in Canada to elevate one's status above that conferred by background in the UK.

el_richo

Again out of curiosity, what do you believe Canada can offer in the long term for kids and even parents that the UK cannot?

canadian_bacon_boy

That may be true but at least you can be part of the nepotism but becoming part of Canadian society. In the UK if you are not upper middle class you are not upper middle class.

iaink

Hmmm, not so sure about that. I would guess it depends on who you ask. There are as many people see the british as completely arrogant and clueless, living on past glories as there are who see Britain as a great bastion of civilisation.

el_richo

For myself, i know it's a fact

Atlantic Xpat

Well, congratulations of fighting your way to the top or middle or wherever on the heap you find yourself. And by the way it's not whether your degree itself is more laudable than mine (mine being from a Poly and in a slightly obscure business related subject, I'm sure ranks below yours) it was whether your overcoming the challenges and handicaps of your working class background (real or percieved) is a greater achievement than me getting a degree.

Your argument seems based around the few at the top who will always get on by contacts and the old boy network. I'm sure that's still prevalent in Britain (as it is in Canada), but for the vast majority of graduates or non-graduates, getting ahead on the career/life ladder is by dint of hard work, talent and sometimes a little luck. Are you saying that if I, as a middle class boy with a RP accent, went for the same interview as you, from a working class with an unknown accent, that were we equally qualified or experienced, I'd get the job? I'd beg to differ, although one of the reasons I did get my first job in Canada was because my boss (a woman) like my accent but she was probably unable to distinguish between middle class and working class done good.