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What's wrong with Canada?

What's wrong with Canada?

Old Feb 28th 2009, 6:24 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
On the subject of tasers - they should just be outlawed. If you must be armed, stick with guns - everyone knows they kill so they won't be used so indiscriminately.
You cannot be serious right? Almost every week there is a report on the news about someone being tasered, for the most part these people are carrying an offensive weapon, or having been apprehended in the viscinity of a crime and not surrendering when asked to do so by officers. Without fail there is someone bleating on about how the taser should not have been used. Well it the subject hadnt been doing something wrong, or had done what was asked by the officer he wouldnt have been zapped would he??

It would be a real shame if this resource was denied across the board because of an arguably regrettable event.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 6:36 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by snowshoveller View Post
You cannot be serious right? Almost every week there is a report on the news about someone being tasered, for the most part these people are carrying an offensive weapon, or having been apprehended in the viscinity of a crime and not surrendering when asked to do so by officers. Without fail there is someone bleating on about how the taser should not have been used. Well it the subject hadnt been doing something wrong, or had done what was asked by the officer he wouldnt have been zapped would he??

It would be a real shame if this resource was denied across the board because of an arguably regrettable event.
It's not tasers per se, it's assumption that it is non-lethal when clearly it is lethal. I personally don't think resisting arrest is cause in itself for potentially lethal force to be used - you obviously think that it is, and we should just accepts a few deaths.

And not sure what your point that i've highlighted is - are you saying that whether or not is regrettable is up for debate?
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 7:02 pm
  #93  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
It's not tasers per se, it's assumption that it is non-lethal when clearly it is lethal. I personally don't think resisting arrest is cause in itself for potentially lethal force to be used - you obviously think that it is, and we should just accepts a few deaths.

And not sure what your point that i've highlighted is - are you saying that whether or not is regrettable is up for debate?
Any death is regrettable in this circumstance,

In terms of a suspect resisting arrest and armed with an offensive waepon, how exactly would you suggest the police deal with this?
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 7:12 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Bee stings are leathal to some people so lets ban them.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 7:22 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Wow. This thread has gone a bit awry. I actually have an opinion; sure some police officers the world over are corrupt, but not all - the vast majority are good guys. Compared with how many corrupt citizens there are in the world, and the amount of murders that take place, I see no issue at all. That's the bottom line here right?

I saw that someone brought up the Menezes incident, and the idea that the police should be charged for murder is completely ridiculous. If he was a terrorist and managed to take out innocents, everyone would ask why the police didn't act. Look at the circumstances, there was a guy under surveillance who ran towards a subway train - just weeks before, we had the London bombings, do you think you'd be able to let a potential terrorist hit the trains again? Personally, I wouldn't risk it. The way I see it, Britain needs to allow the police to do their job as they need to, and not worry about needing to be investigated for defending themselves, or fill in a ton of paperwork either. I hear people complain about the police being able to spot search people; "Against human rights" or whatever. I wouldn't care if they search me, I have nothing to hide and they're clearly doing their job of law and order.

I'm in total support of the police force and what it achieves. Without them, we'd be ****ed.

I rambled a bit, ahah. That was a mess of stuff, but I get really narked when there are complaints about the police / armed services.

edit;;
Bee stings are leathal to some people so lets ban them.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by snowshoveller View Post
Any death is regrettable in this circumstance,

In terms of a suspect resisting arrest and armed with an offensive waepon, how exactly would you suggest the police deal with this?
And unarmed? Or armed with a stapler?
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:16 pm
  #97  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
And unarmed? Or armed with a stapler?
Whether a suspect is unarmed or armed is irrelevant, if they are resisting arrest violently, reasonable force is what they can expect. Would you have the Police merely chat with a dangerous suspect?
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:22 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by roguetide View Post
Compared with how many corrupt citizens there are in the world, and the amount of murders that take place, I see no issue at all. That's the bottom line here right?

I saw that someone brought up the Menezes incident, and the idea that the police should be charged for murder is completely ridiculous. If he was a terrorist and managed to take out innocents, everyone would ask why the police didn't act. Look at the circumstances, there was a guy under surveillance who ran towards a subway train - just weeks before, we had the London bombings, do you think you'd be able to let a potential terrorist hit the trains again? Personally, I wouldn't risk it. The way I see it, Britain needs to allow the police to do their job as they need to, and not worry about needing to be investigated for defending themselves, or fill in a ton of paperwork either. I hear people complain about the police being able to spot search people; "Against human rights" or whatever. I wouldn't care if they search me, I have nothing to hide and they're clearly doing their job of law and order.

I'm in total support of the police force and what it achieves. Without them, we'd be ****ed.
So the police should be above the law? Idiocy.

Some people just don't get it - I used to trust the police - I no longer trust or respect them (tasering innocent people, constantly drink driving, racist beatings). The UK police are worse tho - we'll never know if they over-reacted in the mendez case as they hid the evidence (had it been anyone but the police commiting the crime then the camera footage would have been available) and then lied about what happened.

And I'm not some bleeding heart liberal - I don't want tasers banned because the are lethal, but because the police don't seem to know they are lethal and using them accordingly.

I agree we need the police, but we need them to uphold the law - what about sorting out the gang violence in metro vancouver for a start.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:24 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by roguetide View Post
Whether a suspect is unarmed or armed is irrelevant, if they are resisting arrest violently, reasonable force is what they can expect. Would you have the Police merely chat with a dangerous suspect?
Do you even know what proportionate means?
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:25 pm
  #100  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by Alan2005 View Post
Do you even know what proportionate means?
Do you even know what Reasonable Force is?
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:42 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by dboy View Post
So, when did you become an expert on police use of force?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew..._name=&no_ads=
When did you? That kind of beligerence is uncalled for, and unsettling given that you are an RCMP officer. They used to be relied on to defuse situations, not the opposite.

The RCMP officers are not the only ones responsible for this man's death, and I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say they are murderers. But the video speaks for itself, and the way those officers went in was appalling. You can scream and holler all you like in defence of your comrades but they were way out of line both in the tasering and their actions - or lack of - following their attack on this man. I am even more appalled by their demeanor and attitude on the witness stand.

There are good RCMP officers (though our local detachment does nothing to endear itself to the population) but this reflects badly on all of them.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:44 pm
  #102  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by roguetide View Post
Whether a suspect is unarmed or armed is irrelevant, if they are resisting arrest violently, reasonable force is what they can expect. Would you have the Police merely chat with a dangerous suspect?
This particular man was not resisting arrest. It has been shown that he was actually following direction when being told to go over to the counter.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:54 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by startwin View Post
This particular man was not resisting arrest. It has been shown that he was actually following direction when being told to go over to the counter.
I agree, in this instance he did not appear to be resisting arrest or displaying an imminant threat to public safety.

This is a difficult one to call, although I dont believe police officers can be held accountable for actions that they take as part of their job, if this were the case no one would ever take the job on and where could this leave society??

I think the issue in this particular instance is the use of Taser's , when clearly the potential implications of using the same, have not been clearly researched.

This is an awful situation all round

Last edited by nikki dreaming; Feb 28th 2009 at 9:21 pm. Reason: spelling
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:56 pm
  #104  
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by startwin View Post
This particular man was not resisting arrest. It has been shown that he was actually following direction when being told to go over to the counter.
Fair enough. I agree that this was a pretty unwarranted reaction from the police, but I think it's obvious that they never intended to kill.
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Old Feb 28th 2009, 8:57 pm
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Default Re: What's wrong with Canada?

Originally Posted by roguetide View Post
Do you even know what Reasonable Force is?
Actually yes - and it doesn't normally involve people being killed.

Look we are never going to agree on this - you live in a world where the police are perfect and the state will protect you and I don't.
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