As a general comment... IMO, a lot of what I've read on this thread sounds like stuff every generation of 'older folk' have complained about generation after generation: "The youth of today."

Though I wouldn't want this to happen to me, or anyone I know I, seriously doubt it ever would. That program was sensationalistic, scare-mongering and reminded me a lot of "Hard Copy" from the US (not sure if that show still exists but long-time residents of Canada will know what I mean).

(Knowing my luck, I'll probably be bitch-slapped tomorrow ).

BTW, there is plenty of youth violence and crime in Canada. Some info about youth violence in Canada:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...ng-050325.html

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...lly050401.html
news clip of above: http://www.cbc.ca/clips/mov/bittira_bullied050401.mov
(it shows some footage of the video - it's disturbing but not very graphic)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/crime/youthcrime.html

Still... I'm more worried about the people I least suspect.

How dare you!

I am entitled to my opinion the same as anyone else here.

Who died and made you righteous.

I find it insulting that you should ripe into someones opinion in such a way.
I have never insulted anyone here and have no intentions of doing so. I am a genuine women with an intelligent head on my shoulders.
you have your opinion and i have mine!
I do not wish to fight with anyone and this was a simple discussion.


I beleive that society has gone to peices and beleive me becuase i have done it. My daughter got in trouble and i took the law by the hand and showed here the consequences.

I do beleive that the the balance of rights is wrong in society. We need to be careful about how we dish out the rights. Children know too much about there rights and are using it as a weapon towards even their own parents.

I have friends that are in the police, fireservice and social services and they will all tell you horror stories about todays youth and how their hands are tied so often.
The bit about 'reality TV' was simply a little humour. I can't stand the shows they make me sick. AS IF THIS WOULD WORK(HOW DUMB DO YOU THINK I AM)

I continue to say that VALUES are whats missing in society.
This is the biggest issue and is getting worse.

You advanced an opinion on a talkboard, it's inevitable that someone will disagree with it. That's rather the point of such boards. However, my dispute is not with your opinion but with SAW 04's contention that it was "well said". I thought it to be a jumbled recycling of reactionary cliches worthy of Barbara Amiel. I see that you now offer more of the same,

"I continue to say that VALUES are whats missing in society. This is the biggest issue and is getting worse."

Which values are these ? Iran has a strict moral code, is that the sort of thing you have in mind ? Why is this lack of values a bigger issue than, say, the sponsorship scandal and in what way are there less or worse values today than last May ?

Why are you so picky? Why is ther are need for exact terminology?
This is not a real debate it is a simple discussion forum.
The discussion was about the youth in the UK. This is what i responded too. Not in Iran or any other country for that matter.

What i am saying about values is that if more people in todays society actually focused on good set of morals and values surely this would be better for everyone.
1: we start to learn at a young age the value of money! My children earned their pocket money.(far too much handed on a plate or overcompensating in todays society)
2: Learn at an early age that if you commit a crime there will be a punishment and follow it through. it does not need to be violent as this does lead to further problems.
3:Treat others as we expect to be treated.
4: Manners don't cost a thing but they go along way.

there are many more i could list.
The NATIONAL SEVICE i was talking about! Why could we not find work in society for these offenders that they would not normaly do. This would not be quite so 'cool'. I remember my younger brother getting in trouble as a teenager and my mother phoned social services and got him some work in a local mental hospital(as they were then called). This was for elderly people and he ended up loving it and the respect came back.
SERVICE FOR THE NATION!
putting something back into society. Why is that such a bad thing to do!

as for your comment on my connections with the prison staff or inmates.
I am a trained counsellor and i have worked with prison staff from high securety offenders. So yes i do know what i am talking about. It is no hotel in there!

I also have a friend who is in prison and it is horrific the stories you hear.

I am not about to veture into a full scale fight over a TV show i have better things to do with my time.
Before! ... you and i were actually commenting on each others vacation and quite honestly i could not beleive the attitude change.


I will leave to your pedestal!

PRISON

Has anyone any experience of prison

I have, 10 years to be exact working in Her Majesty's famous Hotel in Glasgow
I get incarcerated every day, prison is not a nice place to be.
Slashings, stabbings, hangings, cell fires, drug incidents, prisoners using babies to get drugs into prison, yes using innocent babies, they hide the drugs in the babies nappy during a visit, he holds the baby and gets drugs out, swallows drugs and later does a number two and gets drugs, if they dont burst inside him before this. Horrible as it may seem, this does happen

We only recently moved into a refurbished hall which had in cell sanitation
Before that I had to endure the dreaded draconian practice of slopping out
My employer recently lost a test case, where a prisoner sued them for breaching his human rights due to the fact that he had to slop out 5 times a day
My employer The Scottish Executive / Scottish Prison Service has set aside £162 million pounds for compensation claims for prisoners who are sueing, due to them having to slop out.
Prisoners had to slop out anything up to 5 times a day, only seeing their own chamber pot.

We, Us, the staff had to endure this up to 5 times a day, and with 90 prisoners on your landing it was not nice sight, Standing supervising them in the toilet 5 times a day by 90 prisoners. The stench was un-bearable especially in the morning, but you got immune to the smell.

Anyway my point of this is
What compensation are the staff getting, I hear you all say, something I hope.

Well my friends we are getting ZILCH, SOD ALL, NANTIE, ZERO DOLLARS.

Now who says the system is geared towards the offender

YOUR BLOOMIN RIGHT THE SYSTEM IS GEARED TOWARDS THE CRIMINAL.

The system really pisses me off.

In response to the poster who says that it is socially cool to got to prison.

I fully agree with this statement

It is an initiation ceremony going to prison, particulary for a first offender who knows loads of street scum pals are in the jail.

Where else will a scumbag get credit for his crime, see his street urchin pals in beside him, get access to SKY TV, DVD, VIDEOS, unlimited access to a doctor, dentist, nurse, employment advisors, housing advisors, drug counsellors, social workers, and the list goes on and on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jail as I see it is NOT a punishment, it is just getting scumbags off the streets for a few days, few months, few years, or maybe life, but life is not a life sentence, unless the trail judge stipulates this, so the scum will be back on the street, sometime in the near future.

Cons do learn more criminal skills whilst incarcerated, they do learn how to open cars more easily, how to mug people more discreatly, break into house without making a lot of noise, how to gain access into the wee grannys house to mug her and steal her life savings.
Prison is a massive learning curve for all types of criminals, whether the petty criminal or the hardened robber, mugger etc.

I have seen it time and time again when someone goes into prison with a small drug habit and comes out a real smackhead, who will commit a crime as soon as he leaves the jail. I think the record for someone not staying out prison was less than 24 hours, Got out that morning and was lifted by the police in the afternoon, commitied a crime, as he had breached his parole licence conditions he went straight back to jail, without collecting £200.

So where do we go from here !!!!!!!!

DUNNO you all decide

Eddie

Not exactly.....

http://www.justice.gov.ab.ca/downloa....aspx?id=45392

In my earlier post I put forward the conception of concentration of people adding to the sporadic outbursts of violence from teenagers. I asserted that this is an issue in all westernised countries but seems to be highlighted much more in the UK. Look how dense the population is. Look at the number of large estates that exists. Dagenham was/is the largest council estate in Europe and overspill of such towns (if thats what you can call them - more like cities) has led to the creation of new towns. New buildings - same illness.

When 'I were a lad' I lived in a poor area of Kent. 30 odd years ago the school I briefly went to (2 years) between Primary and Grammar had two killings. One boy was kicked to death outside his mum's house not more than 200 yards away from our house by a gang with not only other children but adults also looking on and another boy was knifed to death in a playground. On top of this there were constant beatings, gang warfare where teenagers would surge along streets in huge groups, there were drug problems and car thefts - you name it. I had/have (not sure) an older brother and sister as well so I saw all of this first hand with my eyes or through the reprecutions of my brothers and in part my sisters piers. Rememeber we had Mods, Rockers, and Skin Heads in its infancy coming along. Not different there then.

But it did not occupy daily news, it did not occupy TV coverage in quite the same way as it does today. When you have a society that endorses Celebrity Wrestling or Boxing which is turning violence (and it is violence how ever you dress it up) you are showing the teenagers and even pre- ten year olds that its good to kick the crap out of someone...to dominate and oppress someone. Often I have seen campaigns to halt professional boxing. I am 50/50 on this one yet to turn violence into a rate catching media event is shameful. You might say wrestilng exists in North America. Yes it does - but does the media turn it into something of a joke by putting people we see sitting behind desks or presenting light hearted programmes into rings to fight? I have not as yet but I bet its only a matter of time before the US adapt and adopt yet more SHIT from the UK media.

WE are at a point where the media wants to show someone actually being killed live on TV, as a matter of public concern.....? Hell no...as a ratings war.

We used to have BBC, ITV news, then BBC 2 and then Channel four - this was the way it was. Missed the news at 9 on BBC you had to switch over to ITV at ten. Now we have 24 hour news coverage on a wealth of TV networks in different languages beaming into our front rooms. Someone gets killled in a far off place we have possibly never heard of and its in your living space within minutes. We are getting frightened of living as death is only minutes away. We are not just getting on with our daily chores any longer. Many are looking for somewhere to run. (ringing any bells). In truth there is nowhere to run to. Like the industrial revolution during the 19th century we are having to deal with change and its painful. I am a 40 something and I guess my worry is highlighted as we have teenage children. You worry for them as we don't know if they will cope. We did so I am sure in the long run they will - they will have to.

Where next. How low will the media stoop. Its up to the public to switch off - thats the only way they will learn.

I can only agree thank god we are leaving this hell hole shortly!! Things will only get worse now that blair is in for another 4 years, with his politically correct, protect the offender attitudes!!

I would find it hard not to retaliate if I was "happy slapped" however that would get me a criminal record and bang goes my Canadian Dreams!!

The sooner we can get away from here the better, I really fear for the future of "Great" Britain!!

This "happy slapping" phenomenon has hit the little town I live in (population < 90,000). It's drug related, aimed at the more physically vulnerable and is used as a form of mugging. Two old ladies and two older men have been "happy slapped" in the last three months to my knowledge. Teenagers do it to each other, again usually the drug involved kids.

How arrogant are you.!
Are you really this patronising or do you work at it.
Get over yourself! Please!
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, why be so mean?

Getting back to the disgust of "Happy slapping" I finding amazing how many children can afford mobile phones, and how the courts deal with them once they have the evidence of the assualt and attempted Murder.

BT must have incredible low payment plans or the parents are to blame.

To many times I have seen the parents allow the children decide the important things of life. Just too keep the peace.

But at the end of the day who is really to blame, their grandparents for not teaching thier kids how to be Parents. or Society (COURTS) for not showing enough disgust and outrage at their behaviour. Best place to hit the kids is their pockets take the parents money take the good life from the parents.

Yes I am responsible for my children when I am not watching them 24/7 after all I taught them right from wrong I taught them how to make judgments on a situation. I taught them that their actions can result in a lost of everything their family, their home, their toys, their friends. I happily let them see the street kids, see the effects of drugs and the lifestyles of the drug lords. See how much governments don't do to stop the manufacturing of the chemicals used for the hard-core drugs. Get to understand the pain a victim goes thru.

The old adage of can't do the time don't do the crime is true, our job as parents is to get them to love what they have so much that they will not do dumb things that risks losing it.

If your kid is demanding their rights give them to them. No designer labels no electronics, no high price meals or trips away, a roof over their heads, a sleeping bag on the floor, low cost meals and clothing from the Sally army is their right. The rest is “a Luxury” and is losable.


Peace isn’t given to you, you have to fight for it tooth and nail. Pick your weapons carefully and a wagging finger will have the same effect as an arsenal of guns.

Remember love isn't about giving in.

You and me both!!! Lucky there are still plenty of dark alleys over here, eh?!!

WELL SAID BABYBLUE!!undefined

I could not agree more annie3-4. Its this type of arrogant and patronising attitude that is partially to blame for the state of the UK and one of our main reasons for wanting to leave!

From my point of view, I see the opposite. The media in the US is far, far, far worse than the UK in terms of violence and "if it bleeds, it leads" news reporting. Far worse. I'm pretty sure 'celebrity' boxing started in the US, the UK adapted and adopted that.

When you get to Canada and flip on the tube, you might get a shock . Canada's neighbour and supplier of a lot media consumed in Canada, is one of the more violent societies and its television reflects that.

...and then there's the televangelists and infomercials! :scared:

Everytime there's an execution of a well-known prisoner scheduled in the US, the media gets a hard on. I can only imagine the frenzy should televised executions ever happen.

I agree.