iaink

Or alternatively you might think, jeesus, all this security, I cant take a bottle of water on the plane now?, those bloody terrorists are really getting clever, is it really safe? I wonder what they will come up with next time. Oh my god, Im getting on a flying coffin.

The more high profile and visible the security, the more high profile and visible the threat of terrorism becomes, and the more fear there is in the streets.

As long as these people are prepared to die taking out a few of the infidel with them, it will never be safe. Whats to stop them walking into terminal 4, or paddington station for that matter, with a semiautomatic and opening fire till someone else with a gun shoots them dead? Nothing. Nothing at all.

You put checkpoints in the streets and start checking ID, and people start to think that they are living among the enemy whether its true or not, and fear is what the terroist are aiming to create, its really there only true weapon.

God help us if our security is dependent on visible security at check in.

Does no one else think it odd that this investigation has been going on for months, and yet it comes down to last minute panic inspections at the point of entry to the planes. I really hope that was not "plan A"

The cynic in me thinks that this kind of high profile action does no harm to a PM/ presidents approval rating at a time when the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are deeply unpopular and personal approval ratings are in the crapper.

Lees147

Once again though after every one of those 'accidents/incidents' there was a review panel which basically said

• what was to blame
• who was to blame
• are there any other occurances across the network
• how can we resolve this
• ensure it never happens again

If you had an accident i.e. the piece of track missing and 7 people died and then the next day they sent another train down without fixing/improving the problem then there would be so much grief.

All i am suggesting is that they are already looking at ways to prevent this from happening not to make you more scared and say 'yeah we aren't going to do anything about this'

Stuarty

The goverment/MI5 are zero for 2 so far (The poor Brazilian bloke and the recent high profile raid) so I hope all this hype is worth it.......or maybe I hope it isn't and we have nothing to fear.
Stuarty

Lees147

now you are suggesting to abandon security to make people feel safer rather than actually being safer well done.

dbd33

I don't think anyone is saying that no security is required. For myself, I'm very impressed with the diligent yet sane approach of the TSA. However, the security services do not seem very good at dealing with potential terrorism and for them to cause a panic by leaving the arrest of alleged plotters to the last minute is inconsiderate if not irresponsible. For the public to indulge in the panic is disproportionate to the threat and pandering to the terrorists.

Chill dude, get something from those posters in BC to relax you.

iaink

I think the VAST majority of people in the UK (and elswhere) would have far more peace of mind if the tiny risk of being a victim of terrorism was not rammed down there throats at every opportunity.

But what I was really suggesting was that trying to catch terrorists as they board the aircraft is not a very efficient way of going about it.

From my work in quality I know that 100% visual inspection is 80% effective at best. How do you like those odds?

kt0157

Well the courts weren't given much of an opportunity to convict Mr. I-teach-little-kids-and-have-a-Yorkshire-accent-so-no-one-suspected-me were they?

K.

Mercedes

No they probably had other names which probably isn't politically correct nowadays.

Not all iraqis are considered insurgents. There is a divide with the Iraqis, those who don't want a sunni control and those that do a Maybe why Iraqi is at civil war. May surprise you that also our good old boys who used to belong to the IRA are out there in support, because lets face it they have been unemployed now, and killing people is ingrained in them.

It may also surprise you that many innocent iraqis are also dying at the hands of their people, I feel very sorry for them, because not only did they get initially get bombed by us, they are now getting killed by their own. I don't like the way we went in, and now that it isn't a money making machine, the support with finances is being withdrawn in rebuilding and protecting those who are trying to help the iraqis.

But there will be people like you who sit on the fence, and others who go out and try and help, and these are the ones who are getting killed. I know quite a few people who are civillian out there who are trying to help and they have been killed by them, they are not in the military either.

Insurgent is a modern word, like terriorist is, and in some cases I think it is placed wrong and others the cap fits.

Lees147

This is going to be my last post on the matter cause i need to go soon.

The fact is, yes it is a last resort to stop a terrorist at an airport it is also extremly risky, stupid and irresponsable.

But it is even more irresponsable to value a car key/laptop/aerosol can or whatever it is that you would like to bring on the plane with you. Over safety and security.

Anything that you actually need to survive should already be on the plane(water). perhaps you dont wish to be charged for this they can install a tap at the gate and provide an empty bottle.

Like i said people are afraid of flying on planes and to get there confidence back up they need to improve. Whether this improvement affects human rights is an issue that the airlines/government need to decide. obviously i understand concerns that they can take it too far but you are already prohibited to use/bring so much stuff on a plane why does it hurt to increase the list.

it doesn't happen very often you are quite right but you ask the victims families how they feel that someone was able to get into the cockpit of a plane!!!

Perhaps you are persicuting me for the media making 'too much of a big deal out of it' But that also is perhaps a lessons learnt is to tell them to shut up.

You cant sit there and say nothing needs to be improved because there is normally a lot of simple things that can be done to improve any aspect of any product/service.

dbd33

I'm afraid I don't follow most of this but I'm glad you accept my analogy between the Iragis and the historical victims of colonialism.

Insurgent isn't a "modern word", it's derived from Latin and means

"1. Rising in revolt against established authority, especially a government.
2. Rebelling against the leadership of a political party."

Only the usage, to mean "rebelling against an invading force" is new. It's the wrong word as, without our invasion, there would be no uprising.

dbd33

Er, no, but just because the authorities say someone is a terrorist we can't take that as gospel.

Mercedes

[QUOTE=dbd33]I don't think anyone is saying that no security is required. For myself, I'm very impressed with the diligent yet sane approach of the TSA. However, the security services do not seem very good at dealing with potential terrorism and for them to cause a panic by leaving the arrest of alleged plotters to the last minute is inconsiderate if not irresponsible. For the public to indulge in the panic is disproportionate to the threat and pandering to the terrorists.

Chill dude, get something from those posters in BC to relax you QUOTE

I think the threat of having 10 potential planes blown up isn't disproprotionate, what do you want them to do, wait to see if all 10 planes blow up, because they then will know for sure if they were an actual threat or not. It is extremely easy to get biological weapons or chemical weapons that can't be traced on board that won't be picked up by scanners and security. The Al Quida lot are not a bunch of uneducated idiots, they do know what they are doing and they know what the security procedures are.

Maybe it was a diversion, maybe the real target is somewhere else. The police and security services are doing their best to protect us, but I don't think you have any idea how vunerable we are at the moment and how easy it is to kill masses of people. Train station, football stadiums, shopping malls, were there are masses of people it is so easy, especially people who have no respect for their lives either. They are dealing with a different breed of terrorist that they have had to deal with before, others in the past tend to make sure they are miles away, these people could be walking behind you and even smile at you. These terrorists even may be your friend, and you didn't know.

But I don't think we have seen anything yet. The towers and how those planes were hijacked etc was a mastermind in many respects, and it shows what they are capable of. In iraq, they are damn good at countering any security measures in and if they apply that in UK, we are in for some tough times.

dbd33

If passenger numbers are falling they can just cut thier prices but I don't know that they are. Got a link ?

Souvenir

I concur with you on this one. My experiences with the TSA over the last year have been no more or less than what I would have wanted. Yes, they will go over you, and everything with you, using a fine tooth comb. So far, it has been done in a polite and friendly way. I have no problem with that.

dbd33

Why then do we need new measures that are not aimed at dealing with biological or chemical weapons?