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Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Old Dec 5th 2020, 2:50 am
  #526  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Gozit
Logic is not present with the Canadian government. Hell, as a young healthy person I won't be able to get the vaccine here until September, which means COVID restrictions until into 2022. Yet the UK is starting to vaccinate people next week, and Malta first week of Jan providing ECDC approves the Pfizer vaccine for use. I am fairly confident i'll get the vaccine in Malta before I get it here. I'm afraid if I don't get it, countries will start to place restrictions on who can and can't enter based on if they are vaccinated. If i'm unable to get the vaccine due to the government not having it available then it will be a catch 22 where i'm stuck in Canada yet longer due to the inability to get a vaccine.
You are correct that logic is not present at all with the Canadian government, also there is no "scientific based approach" even though they keep repeating it. Ultimately politics takes decisions not scientists and lot's of scientists disagree on various subjects.

The greatest fear I would have is that even with the vaccine and evidence that I have been vaccinated, the Canadian government will not move one iota from the current quarantine regulation. I have lot's of reasons for this fear, as the behaviour of the government is sadly more than evident. These fears are based on similar thoughts than your catch 22 theory, which I also consider a very sad but very plausible scenario.

I would also support the legal requirement for vaccination for every citizen, resident and traveller, also vaccination passports, but all with the guarantee of no quarantine when one travels.

Last edited by OrangeMango; Dec 5th 2020 at 2:53 am.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 3:45 am
  #527  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango
You are correct that logic is not present at all with the Canadian government, also there is no "scientific based approach" even though they keep repeating it. Ultimately politics takes decisions not scientists and lot's of scientists disagree on various subjects.

The greatest fear I would have is that even with the vaccine and evidence that I have been vaccinated, the Canadian government will not move one iota from the current quarantine regulation. I have lot's of reasons for this fear, as the behaviour of the government is sadly more than evident. These fears are based on similar thoughts than your catch 22 theory, which I also consider a very sad but very plausible scenario.

I would also support the legal requirement for vaccination for every citizen, resident and traveller, also vaccination passports, but all with the guarantee of no quarantine when one travels.
Is travelling to Calgary an option for you? At least you would be home https://www.alberta.ca/international...ect.aspx#toc-3
.https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lady-1.5798805

Last edited by Siouxie; Dec 5th 2020 at 3:48 am.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 5:23 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Is travelling to Calgary an option for you? At least you would be home https://www.alberta.ca/international...ect.aspx#toc-3
.https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lady-1.5798805
I am aware of the "Calgary Option", but there is the requirement to stay 14 days in the province.

However I am sad that this option isn't offered in Toronto, even though the university of Toronto ran or is running a testing / tracing project at YYZ airport which is not to eliminate quarantine. Other than this being a provincial matter there is absolutely no logic behind it. Apart from all that Calgary is rather cold anyway this time of year, so spending a lot of time indoors is not that unrealistic.

Furthermore, if you're travelling for example from overseas to Canada, to Toronto change planes and then further onward to Calgary one could be most likely sitting in a seat next to a Canadian resident, who lives in Toronto and travels to Calgary and who is not subject to any testing and quarantine requirements. It just shows how ridiculous the current arrangement is.

Apart from all that, only 0.5% of all Covid 19 infections are attributed to travel and the air within an airplane is the cleanest of them all.

So much for "science based" approaches.

Last edited by OrangeMango; Dec 5th 2020 at 5:32 am.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 9:31 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Is travelling to Calgary an option for you? At least you would be home https://www.alberta.ca/international...ect.aspx#toc-3
.https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lady-1.5798805
Originally Posted by OrangeMango
I am aware of the "Calgary Option", but there is the requirement to stay 14 days in the province.

However I am sad that this option isn't offered in Toronto, even though the university of Toronto ran or is running a testing / tracing project at YYZ airport which is not to eliminate quarantine. Other than this being a provincial matter there is absolutely no logic behind it. Apart from all that Calgary is rather cold anyway this time of year, so spending a lot of time indoors is not that unrealistic.

Furthermore, if you're travelling for example from overseas to Canada, to Toronto change planes and then further onward to Calgary one could be most likely sitting in a seat next to a Canadian resident, who lives in Toronto and travels to Calgary and who is not subject to any testing and quarantine requirements. It just shows how ridiculous the current arrangement is.

Apart from all that, only 0.5% of all Covid 19 infections are attributed to travel and the air within an airplane is the cleanest of them all.

So much for "science based" approaches.
.
I take it that's a "NO" then shall I?

Last edited by Siouxie; Dec 5th 2020 at 9:34 am.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 9:47 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Siouxie
.
I take it that's a "NO" then shall I?
It's a maybe. The current quarantine regulation could easily go on until September 2021 by the attitude they have, regardless if you managed to get the vaccine in Europe or not.....

I am only surprised that Air Canada doesn't market that Calgary option more. After all it's their business. Fly to Europe and return to Canada, no quarantine required, but stay in Alberta for 14 days. After all the Canadian tax payer is bailing out the airline.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 9:52 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango
I am aware of the "Calgary Option", but there is the requirement to stay 14 days in the province.

However I am sad that this option isn't offered in Toronto, even though the university of Toronto ran or is running a testing / tracing project at YYZ airport which is not to eliminate quarantine. Other than this being a provincial matter there is absolutely no logic behind it. Apart from all that Calgary is rather cold anyway this time of year, so spending a lot of time indoors is not that unrealistic.

Furthermore, if you're travelling for example from overseas to Canada, to Toronto change planes and then further onward to Calgary one could be most likely sitting in a seat next to a Canadian resident, who lives in Toronto and travels to Calgary and who is not subject to any testing and quarantine requirements. It just shows how ridiculous the current arrangement is.

Apart from all that, only 0.5% of all Covid 19 infections are attributed to travel and the air within an airplane is the cleanest of them all.

So much for "science based" approaches.
The no quarantine option is only available to those entering Canada directly at Calgary.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 10:27 am
  #532  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Revin Kevin
The no quarantine option is only available to those entering Canada directly at Calgary.

Air Canada always allowed a stop over option for international flights on one booking code, pre-Covid 19 that was, as far as I remember. They could easily extend this for 14 days for flights arriving at Calgary airport. it is a bit unusual, but a little flexibility is not too much to ask.

I also just checked the Calgary airport website. At the moment Dutch KLM seems to be the only one flying directly from Europe to Calgary. KLM also has a code share with Westjet as far as I know.

Last edited by OrangeMango; Dec 5th 2020 at 10:33 am.
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Old Dec 5th 2020, 12:52 pm
  #533  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango
You are correct that logic is not present at all with the Canadian government, also there is no "scientific based approach" even though they keep repeating it. Ultimately politics takes decisions not scientists and lot's of scientists disagree on various subjects.

The greatest fear I would have is that even with the vaccine and evidence that I have been vaccinated, the Canadian government will not move one iota from the current quarantine regulation. I have lot's of reasons for this fear, as the behaviour of the government is sadly more than evident. These fears are based on similar thoughts than your catch 22 theory, which I also consider a very sad but very plausible scenario.

I would also support the legal requirement for vaccination for every citizen, resident and traveller, also vaccination passports, but all with the guarantee of no quarantine when one travels.
My main concern is around whether we have end up having a vaccine based top trumps - one would hope reciprocal agreements stop all that (although the same agreement could potentially disrupt travel between 2 countries) and Dr Fauci being quick to slag off the UKs vaccine approval made me a little concerned.

If it turns out Pfizer vaccine is only 80% effective outside of trials, country A mandates vaccine A before you can enter, but country B has a standard vaccination in the form of vaccine B, people in country B must be get vaccine A before travelling to country A. Wouldn't necessarily end up being science based either, could be a very political based argument.

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Old Dec 6th 2020, 5:57 am
  #534  
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Doug Ford apparently is still pursuing bringing the Alberta testing pilot to Ontario. https://flytrippers.com/ontario-quar...9ea5-182901650

In other news, the one direct flight I seem to have found from Europe ---> Calgary, KLM flight 611 and usually goes on Fridays from AMS-YYC. (Since "The Calgary option" needs a direct flight to Calgary no stopover at another Canadian airport.)
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 5:12 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Gozit
Doug Ford apparently is still pursuing bringing the Alberta testing pilot to Ontario. https://flytrippers.com/ontario-quar...9ea5-182901650

In other news, the one direct flight I seem to have found from Europe ---> Calgary, KLM flight 611 and usually goes on Fridays from AMS-YYC. (Since "The Calgary option" needs a direct flight to Calgary no stopover at another Canadian airport.)
The question regarding the direct flight and no stopover at another Canadian airport also begs the question whether one can book any flight from Europe with a stopover in the US and a final destination in one of the designated 4 Canadian airports? Is one allowed to travel via the US to Canada? Or are there any hurdles in between, especially in the US?

I am also cautious regarding that link. Yes, it would be favourable if Ontario did the same as Alberta, however that particular link is from the travel industry. Thus this link would be very much in favour of the traveller, not in favour of Dr. Tam's ideas. Also, what is not correctly described in that link is that one is required to submit a daily report on one's health during quarantine.

Currently Canada also seems to require a negative Corona test 3 days prior to departure, this also seems to apply to Alberta? This particular negative Corona test 3 days prior to departure also doesn't eliminate the 14 day quarantine requirement in all other provinces.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7547089/c...update-dec-30/
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 5:49 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Gozit
Doug Ford apparently is still pursuing bringing the Alberta testing pilot to Ontario. https://flytrippers.com/ontario-quar...9ea5-182901650

In other news, the one direct flight I seem to have found from Europe ---> Calgary, KLM flight 611 and usually goes on Fridays from AMS-YYC. (Since "The Calgary option" needs a direct flight to Calgary no stopover at another Canadian airport.)
UK passangers now need a PCR test prior to entering the Netherlands even just for transit The Calgary no quarantine option is no longer available for UK passangers in any case.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 5:54 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Revin Kevin
UK passangers now need a PCR test prior to entering the Netherlands even just for transit The Calgary no quarantine option is no longer available for UK passangers in any case.
I am currently not in the UK, thus this doesn't apply to me. I also understand that all UK - Canada flights have been suspended?

However there is to my knowledge no medical indication that the new Covid 19 variation is more lethal and only slightly more transmissible, as far as I have read the subject. Also the vaccine would be effective against the new variation.

Last edited by OrangeMango; Dec 30th 2020 at 5:58 am.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 6:06 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango
I am currently not in the UK, thus this doesn't apply to me. I also understand that all UK - Canada flights have been suspended?

However there is to my knowledge no medical indication that the new Covid 19 variation is more lethal and only slightly more transmissible, as far as I have read the subject. Also the vaccine would be effective against the new variation.
The wording says that new arrivals from the UK or South Africa are not eligible for the Alberta pilot scheme. I don't know if flying from the UK to Amsterdam or some other European hub and then on to Canada you are classed as an arrival from that place?
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 6:19 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by Revin Kevin
The wording says that new arrivals from the UK or South Africa are not eligible for the Alberta pilot scheme. I don't know if flying from the UK to Amsterdam or some other European hub and then on to Canada you are classed as an arrival from that place?
As said, I am currently not in the UK and have been absent from the UK for more than a year and have never been to South Africa, thus this current changes don't apply to me.

Travelling to Canada from the UK via the Netherlands just to circumvent the law is not that advisable, the authorities will most certainly find out, just by looking at the booking code.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 6:20 am
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Default Re: Quarantine for COVID 19 discussions.

Originally Posted by OrangeMango
However there is to my knowledge no medical indication that the new Covid 19 variation is more lethal and only slightly more transmissible, as far as I have read the subject. Also the vaccine would be effective against the new variation.
But a study released last week by a team of UK scientists estimated that it's 56% more contagious, The New York Times reported. The British government had earlier said the variant might be up to 70% more transmissible.
https://www.cnet.com/health/more-con...united-states/
I wouldn't describe 56% more contagious as slight.
It was first detected Sept. 21...Since then, it has become the most common variant in England, representing more than 50% of new cases diagnosed between October and Dec. 13 in the U.K., according to the WHO.
https://www.livescience.com/uk-varia...virus-faq.html
That's fairly dramatic.
It doesn't need to be 'more lethal' but if 50 % more people get infected than would have been with regular covid, one might reasonably expect significantly more deaths and hospitalisations than there would have been from regular covid
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