iaink

Im not saying they should not be admitted to canada, but why are they financially supported above and beyond what everyone else gets? All immigrants are created equal, but some are more equal than others it seems.

dbd33

Jane and Finch is pretty frightening; lots of gun violence. Parts of Scarborough are also disturbing (the public housing at Morningside and Lawrence for example). Regents Park doesn't seem so bad, it's poor rather than violent, though this might just be familiarity. I was at Moss Park late last night, again it's run down with lots of drugs, but doesn't seem especially violent.

I lived downtown for ten years and the worst that happened was that the kids from the Monoxide Towers kept breaking my car windows, I had a sign on the dash "doors unlocked please do not break glass" but they did it anyway. When I caught them I had a delightful Charles Bronson moment. I believe that statistically the worst area of Toronto is Parkdale and that's the only place I've seen a shooting. It's undergoing yuppiefication right now but then it's been about to be gentrified for as long as I can remember.

dbd33

Oh, something I take as an optimistic sign is that when I first knew Regents Park the residents were new black immigrants. Now they're new Muslim immigrants. I like to think the former residents found their feet and moved up in the world. The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

hot wasabi peas

In Canada, you can't lump refugees and immigrants into the same basket, the two are entirely different categories.

iaink

Thats my point, why are they treated seperately? It seems odd to me that refugees have additional rights to those of spousal applicants and many other newcommers to canada, such as social assistance or working rights. I dont know how true it is, but one hears of asylum seekers claiming thousands of dollars per month in benefits or housing assistance that is simply not available to the great unwashed huddled masses of regular immigrants, or gaining "easy" workpermits that many out there have to jump through hoops to get. There should be the same provision for all newcommers to canada eh!

dbd33

No.

If a country accepts refugees it does so for humanitarian reasons; because they are in distress. Clearly people in such a situation cannot be expected to bring anything with them, they're being helped specifically because they have nothing. Economic migrants, on the other hand, are selling themselves to the country to which they wish to move, it's reasonable for that country to pick and choose between them and to take the ones who can contribute to, rather than drain from, the economy of the country.

By all means argue that Canada should not accept people for humanitarian reasons or that specific refugee claimants are bogus, but expecting refugees to have fled their home countries with currently marketable qualifications and bags of gold is unreasonable.

Phil&Kirsteen

Well, I suppose if someone referred to you (or my British hubby) as a refugee you'd be pretty outraged and set them straight right away wouldn't you? Because you're clearly not a refugee. And so, conversely, refugees are treated separately b/c they're not immigrants - they've been forced to flee and had no choice. Actually, unless things have changed very recently, there's real concern over what's called "refugee limbo" - the fact that they get recognised as refugees in Canada but don't get permanent residency right away (unlike regular immigrants) and therefore refugees entitlement are much more limited than Phil's, for example, will be once he lands in Canada. Believe me, one hears all sorts about refugees in the UK and most of it is unqualified bunk straight out of the mouth of the Daily Mail (that bastion of quality journalism)!

dbd33

Ahem, British emmigrants of my generation often refer to themselves as being "refugees from Thatcher". I had to stop doing when my children met the children of real refugees and wanted to see my scars.

Phil&Kirsteen

So maybe I should check and see if Phil considers himself to be fleeing from Tony Blair?

dozzzzy

I sure am!!!!!!!!

Dozzzzy

therobbos

The problem with authorities checking asylum claims is the fact that most of the situations refugees state they are fleeing from are uncheckable......and guess what? some of them lie!!!....cheeky devils!

dbd33

No !!! G'won !

Then again the authorities weren't born yesterday. A colleague of mine was rotting in refugee camp waiting for his application to go to England to be processed when the Canadians came to him. "We've told the UN we'll take n refugees, you speak the language and have a skill, wanna be one of our quota ?". They'd cherry picked as much as they could.

I actually know a refugee claim assessor in passing, she has an endless fund of "you wouldn't believe the shit this guy tried to shovel" stories. Obviously, some claimants are smarter than some checkers but I don't think there's quite the open door to Canada that there is to some European countries.

Scouse

If a person is seeking refugee status because they and/or their family is being threatened with death because of religious/caste etc differences, I can fully sympathise.

The sad truth is, however, that a lot of so called refugees are seeking asylum on economic grounds - to them I would say.....get educated, give us something we need, give us something that we don't already have, and we will consider your application.

Does this sound familiar? Are we not all economic refugees, hoping for a better life? An over simplification perhaps, but does it not maybe bring things into perspective??

dbd33

Yes. We arrived with a change of clothes, a snooker cue and a pair of skis. We literally carried everything we owned. We had no money, only debt. Still, we were nowhere near having a "well founded fear of persecution". We deserved, and got, nothing from the government of Canada, which is approximately what economic migrants get now. We, weren't however, fleeing from Uganda, Cambodia, Rwanda or any other place where we were in fear of our lives.

Forgive me, but isn't this a matter for the Canadians anyway ? Surely it's not the place of expats to pull up the drawbridge after running across it.

babyblue

I understand where you are coming from. When i was back in the UK i on Income support as a single mother of three children(not through choice i may add) My youngest was severly disabled. I struggled for years to get help and i had to fundraise all the time in order to get the equipment she needed for daily living. Then when she died everything was taken in a flash, no grace period at all. Disgusting! I was in the countryside, my vehicle was taken from me and i was suddenly bellow the bread line. I did the job of 24/7 nursing, went back to college to educate myself. I would have nothing if i had not chose to go back to college. I had hearsay qualifications.Before i had my daughter i was in a well paid job and good prospects.
That is what the british government did for me, Nothing! Yet the flood gates open and the refugees came in. I was in sainsburys one day and a guy in front of me had the best clothes on and cell phone in hand. He paid for his groceries with gift vouchers. From the government. They got priority housing and i knew of many families struggling waiting for their homes.
I never hold a grudge against any body but it does make you a little sick to the stomach when they don't take care of their own first. Global relations only work for some people.

A few months back i was talking to a woman at the nearby Catholic school. She was a refugee, given cheap housing, husband sick on welfare, child in the best school in the area and she was moaning because she could not get school transport. I could not beleive what i was hearing. Most people like myself, sell everything and struggle for years to get anywhere.

I am here now in a poor paid job until i can get my PR, even then i will find it hard to get work. I can't be considered for cheap housing or even benifit!
It just makes you wonder.
Maybe we should have started a war back home and then we could have got what we needed for a new life.

sorry i had to say it!