Election's 'a comin'
 

Judging from what I just read on yahoo.ca

Chretien, at least, will get what he wants for Christmas (Paul Martin on a stick).

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

I don't think Martin will end up on a stick. I expect he'll be back to form another minority, or small majority, government.

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Unfortunately I agree with you. I wish the Liberals would get kicked out. They have had more than a good run at screwing things up - and they have succeeded. Let someone else have a chance at screwing things up for a change.

I think we will spend millions and end up with another Liberal government.

Lord knows why all those people in Ontario vote for him, but I guess he is in the process of buying everyone's vote at the moment.

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He doesn't have to buy my vote. I think Harper's a crazed religious maniac who would drag the country into foreign wars. Layton used to be on the local council, I thought he was a crook and a busybody and that he supported laws harmful to the disabled. I set the hose on NDP canvassers.

Thus the Liberals are the least bad.

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I find that an effective survival strategy when you live in Harper's riding is to pretend you're an anthropologist researching the local society. That helps when you attend one of his town hall meetings and the audience only just stops short of leaping up and shouting, "Zig Heil."

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There's no way a civilised electorate would allow such people to head up a G8 nation.

:eek: :scared:

Rich

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

A lot of people in the Toronto area believe all that media stuff about the Conservative Party being the Canadian Ayatollahs. (Though they don't seem to mind religious fanatics from the Asian communities.) But the main reason they can't make headway in Ontario is the ethnic vote in the Toronto area. Some former Liberal ridings (including my own) in "Canadian" parts of Ontario switched to the Conservatives last time. But the way it works is if a riding is approximately 20% "visible minority" the Tories can't win unless they virtually sweep the white vote. It's the main reason why the Liberals are trying to bring in more immigrants.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

The true Conservative Party would win in a landslide. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that fact.

Unfortunately what we currently have is NOT the true Conservative Party. It is a bastardization of the Reform/Alliance/Conservative Parties. Run by and large by the religious right. A truly scary thought.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Some people on this site are too stupid too see that.



I'm not sure about the ethnic vote though. Just remember last time when it comes to protesting about gay marriage, most of them were immigrants.

When it comes to "social conservatives", alot of immigrants are in that camp.

I was born in Vietnam, came to Canada in 1989, and I dispise the liberal with a passion.

And yeah, I'm voting for Harper because I use my brain and won't let others do the thinking for me, unlike some of you here.

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I don't remember Harper threating to throw anybody in jail if you're not christian.

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Perhaps not.

But they are not very tolerant of the gay community, and they don't favour abortion very much either. :eek:

But they would like to go to war with George W. :scared:

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Which got nothing to do with religion, riiiight????

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Both the anti-gay stance and the anti-abortion stance come directly from the religious right.

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I agree with that.

From what I've seen of him, I think Jim Prentice (Conservative MP for Calgary Centre North) is a decent bloke. But he comes from the Joe Clark Conservatives.

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What is this "true conservative party"??

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And George is looking for another poodle as Tony's backup.

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And your point is?

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If you don't know then I suggest you do some research.

If you agree with their stance, then I reserve the right to disagree with you.

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As do I!

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Yeah, I would like the Conservatives a lot better if someone other than Harper were in charge. We both agree with you about the NDP. :p I don't like the lying Liberals either, so maybe I will just vote for the Bloc Quebecois. :scared:

Sucks that this will be the first election I can vote in and the choices are all so bad.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Not my first election by a long shot.

But definitely have to agree with you regarding the choices.

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What does that say about the Canadian Political scene? Things are so bad that a corrupt Gov't is re-elected (Sponsorship Scandel costing millions etc) in the absence of anything better?

Perhaps we should consider preventing the GTA from voting? Only kidding, but the immigrant vote gets them in every time...no matter how corrupt or lacking in integrity they are!:eek:

If we get a Sh&*T$ gov't...no one to blame but ourselves...

Lets just get bladdered! :beer:

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Similar to that in the UK.

People disliking the incumbent but with no viable alternative.

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yes...pains me...but got to agree! :(

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That the average Canadian had no problem with the government's refusal to accept another election back in June indicates the decline of this so-called "nation". One member of parliament, Belinda Stronach, like most whores, had a price and few "Canadians" (is there such a thing as a Canadian anymore?) had a problem with that. The only real hope for Anglo-Canada is that Quebec nationalists will finally grow enough balls to secede from this artificial decadent state. It's not a nation anymore it is just a consumer society held together by propaganda and (temporary) high living standards. The sooner the collapse the better.

What I really don't understand is why Albertans haven't formed a serious separatist party. Surely even the stupidest Albertans must realise they would be far better off ditching this artificial deracinated entity known as Canada. Even a couple of my Ontario Canadian-born relatives can't understand why anyone would want to remain a part of this dying state.

Ah well...at least for those of us who are well off it'll be fun to watch the collapse of this country. We told you so!

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Since the time of Canada's first Prime Minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, there have been different factions of political conservatism in the country.

Some of them have been fiscally conservative but socially progressive. Some of them have been fiscally liberal while being socially conservative. Some of them have been conservative in both the fiscal and social arenas. Some of them have had a national / federal focus while others have had a regional / provincial focus.

Although there have been many fine nuances amongst various political parties that have called themselves "conservative," one division that widely is recognised is the one between the so called "Red Tories" and the so called "Blue Tories."

Generally speaking, Red Tories have been fiscally conservative and socially progressive. Red Tories in the federal arena have included Sir John A. Macdonald, John Diefenbaker, Robert Stanfield and Joe Clark. Examples of Red Toryism at the provincial level were Ontario's Bill Davis and Alberta's Peter Lougheed. Many people consider John Tory, the current leader of the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party, to be a "Red Tory" in the tradition of Bill Davis.

Blue Tories have been fiscally conservative, in the mould of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. They have included Brian Mulroney and Peter MacKay at the federal level and Alberta's Ralph Klein at the provincial level.

The Conservative Party was founded in 1867. Over the years it changed its name several times. The final name change occurred in 1942, when John Bracken, Leader of Manitoba's Progressive Party and Premier of that Province, agreed to assume the leadership of the Conservative Party on the condition that it added the word "Progressive" to its name. Thus it became the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.

That party, which went by various names over the years, but generally speaking was known as the Conservative Party, lasted from 1867 to 2003. Although it ceased to exist as a federal party in 2003, eight provincial versions of it survive. There are provincial Progressive Conservative Parties in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador.

I am guessing that when Hangman referred to the "true Conservative Party," he was referring to the Conservative (later Progressive Conservative) Party that I've been describing, the one that lasted from 1867 to 2003.

In 1987 an Alberta politician by the name of Preston Manning founded the Reform Party of Canada. The Reform Party of Canada was further to the right than the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. As time marched on, the Reform Party of Canada drew a good deal of support away from the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.

Around 2000 or so, Preston Manning, many of his fellow members of the Reform Party of Canada and many "Blue Tories" (principally from the provincial versions of the Progressive Conservative Parties in Ontario and Alberta) united to form a party called the Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance. (The name was to have been the Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance, until someone realised that the addition of "Party" to that title would have resulted in the acronym of CCRAP.)

The federal version of the Progressive Conservative Party, under the leadership of Joe Clark, declined to participate in the 2000 merger with the Reform Party of Canada.

Around that time, the Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance (called the Canadian Alliance for short) held a leadership contest that Preston Manning lost and Stockwell Day won. To his great credit, Preston Manning was gracious in defeat. I do not agree with all of Manning's policies, but I have to say that I have rarely seen a politician whose behaviour has been as gentlemanly as his was then.

During the 2000 federal election, the Canadian Alliance retained the position of Official Opposition Party that the Reform Party of Canada had enjoyed. In that election the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada dropped to fifth place in parliament. It only just won the 12 seats that it needed in order to be treated as a political party in the House of Commons.

To say that the Canadian Alliance went through the wobblies under Day's leadership would be an understatement. He was handsome and charismatic, but I am being kind about his mental prowess when I describe his outlook as extremely provincial.

A temporary split in the Canadian Alliance forced Day's resignation. This was followed by a leadership election, which Stephen Harper won in April 2002.

In December 2003 the Canadian Alliance and the severely reduced Progressive Conservative Party of Canada agreed to disband and form a new party called the Conservative Party of Canada. By the time the Canadian Alliance and the PCs were negotiating to form a new party, Stephen Harper was still the Leader of the Canadian Alliance, and Peter MacKay was the Leader of the PCs. Harper won the bid for the Leadership of the new Conservative Party of Canada.

Joe Clark and two other Progressive Conservative MPs refused to join the new Conservative Party of Canada and stayed on in parliament nominally as PCs but in effect as Independents. Joe Clark retired from politics in 2004.

Although the new party carries the Conservative name, I think there is fairly wide agreement that it is not the "Conservative Party" that was headed by Sir John A. Macdonald, John Diefenbaker and Joe Clark. Although the current party calls itself the "Conservative Party of Canada," it really is the successor of the Canadian Alliance which, in turn, is the successor of the Preston Manning's Reform Party of Canada.

Generally speaking, the current Conservative Party of Canada is further to the right than the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada used to be. To the extent that the Reform / Alliance / new Conservative movement attracted previous Progressive Conservatives, they tended to be former "Blue Tories." Most of the Progressive Conservatives who had been "Red Tories" gravitated towards the Liberal Party of Canada, the Green Party of Canada, and so on.

It is something of an irony that, when Preston Manning founded the Reform Party of Canada in 1987, he drew much of his support from his father's political base. I say that's ironical because, while the older Ernest Manning had been socially conservative, he had been fiscally progressive. Ernest Manning had been an evangelical preacher who had been the Leader of Alberta's Social Credit Party and, for twenty five years, the Premier of Alberta.

Ernest Manning was the successor of William (Bible Bill) Aberhart, who had founded the Social Credit Party of Alberta during the Great Depression. Aberhart wanted to provide support to farmers, to help them bridge the gap between their operating costs and their income. For this purpose he wanted to issue "prosperity certificates," which his critics dubbed "funny money."

In the event, he was unable to do so. John Bowen, the Lieutenant-Governor of Alberta, refused to give royal asset to three bills that Aberhart's government passed. The Supreme Court of Canada also ruled that the bills were unconstitutional. The legislation attempted to place Alberta's money supply and its banks under the control of the provincial government. However, the British North America Act, which then served as Canada's constitution, stipulated that the money supply and banking were to be under the control of the federal government.

According to his lights, Aberhart did have one small success. He founded the Alberta Treasury Branches in 1938. They survive today in the form of ATB Financial, which is an Alberta crown corporation that to all intents and purposes functions like a regular bank.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Cheeze whiz Judy... that's a great post. Filled in a lot of blanks I had from ignoring Federal politics in various periods of my life! It's frightening what I don't know about Canada. :eek:

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I'm an immigrant. I assume you're an immigrant so, unless we both consistently vote Liberal, your theory is plainly nonsense. If you think the country's gone to the dogs because of the darkies please say so.

I believe Harper to be a Canadian Pat Robertson rather than an Ayatollah. I see the weirdly named Reform fellows, Stock and Press, as being Canadian analogues of Fred Phelps. Overall I think the competence and awareness of the Canadian right is best summarised by the acronym they chose for themselves: CRAP.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Canadians have a high tolerance for corruption. It's usual for bidders on government contracts to sweeten the pot with cash or consumer durables. At the moment there's a bit of a fuss over Dash Domi and his bribes to the Toronto council but, so far as I can see he didn't do anything unusual. On the federal scene the Conservative equivalent of the sponsorship scandal was the Airbus fiasco. Politicians here are dodgy people, quelle surprise, many of them were lawyers before they politicians; of course you wouldn't trust them to babysit. The Liberals are not worse than the Conservatives or the NDP, they've just had more opportunity for looting lately.

As regards the behavior of immigrants, once again, I am the immigrant horde.

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My God she made that MacKay look an idiot. Serves him right, David Orchard seemed to be a good guy and someone with a sensible package of social liberalism and conservative economics, MacKay lied to him and ****ed him over. He had his turn coming.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

"most stupid"

Anyway, we get the point. I'll pass the message on.

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Deracinated was a good word though. Canada is a nation of immigrants and we are mostly rootless cosmopolitans.

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Personally, as America declines over the next few decades I think it's pretty likely that Canada will split. If the East is reliant on America and the West on Asia, there won't be much left to hold them together.

That said, if things go that far then America will probably split for the same reasons... Western Canada might well end up merged with a few of the Western US states: for example, I can't help but feel that a lot of people in Vancouver have far more in common with people in Seattle than Ottawa.

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Ah yes, the mythical future concept of a nation-state of "Olympia" ?

Cool, dude, with a centralised socialist government located atop Mount Olympus, built from sustainably harvested logs, recycled tires, housing a concoction of influential yet streetwise ex-homeless, recovered addict, Vancouverites and Seattlers sipping decaf latte, doing shoeless yoga, wearing hemp clothing, all ruminating on the future for their fellow Olympians.

A true utopian paradise possibility or haggled-up crock from naive day dreamers ?

Vote for the Lotus Eaters, dude. You know it makes sense.

Rich.

Re: Election's 'a comin'
 

Flipper,

If the country is so completely pants, why does it have one of the highest return on capital ratio's in G8 ? Surely, that's THE most important business ratio.

Sure there are issues, foreign investment levels, productivity, threats to social equality, etc.

Seeing that 80% of Albertans would not wish to join the USA what's the given alternative ?

And, assuming you are a Brit-in-Canada, why are you so blatantly anti-Canada ?

Rich.

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While it is true the majority of immigrants vote Liberal, the non-immigrant population of the GTA also shares a large portion of the blame for this. In my year and a half here I have been constantly amazed at the naiveté of Torontonians and their willingness to swallow whatever half-baked loony left line they are fed. While there may be some who vote Liberal out of political conviction, it seems to me most do because they actually believe the fear-mongering spouted by the increasingly desperate Liberal party about the Conservatives.

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I do believe we have reason to fear the Conservatives. Yes.

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That I don't know about, but nothing's going to change the fact that most large states today are held together by the redistribution of wealth... if the tax money stops flowing, many of them will fall apart just as fast as the USSR did.

And again, it still seems to me that many Canadians have more in common with those on the other side of the US border than those on the other side of Canada.

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That may be your impression but how do you explain that 80% of Albertans polled wouldn't want to join the US ?

It just doesn't stack up. The social values either side of the border are different.

Rich

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As one Albertan who has been here for 42 years.

I have to agree with Rich I just don't see us joining the U.S.

There are some obviously who would like to but on the whole I don't think the idea would fly.