Re: Is the dream real?
 

There's a difference between status based on toys and possessions and status based on birthright. That's what materialism is all about both in Canada and the UK.

I haven't found anyone in Canada who demands respect and preferential treatment because of their geneology.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

The Québécois are a glaring example, their "distinct society" is based on being pur laine. The Aboriginal population is another.

If you're looking only at WASP Canadians who arrived in the past couple of centuries then there's the UEL, the 48th Highlanders and various other groups who base their snobbery on the date of their family's arrival.

Then there are the members of the half dozen ruling families, the Bronfmans, Irivngs and so on, they're not shy about using their names.

It's a slightly different system of snobbery and class from that in the UK as not living in Canada is the mark of those at the top of the Canadian heap. Someone at the peak of the class system in the UK doesn't have to go abroad to sit in the Lord's whereas a Canadian must, Conrad Black being an example of someone who reached the pinnacle of social success in Canada; by moving to the UK.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

My grandfather fought with the 48th Highlanders at Vimy Ridge in WWI.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

Yes that is what I have found. The class distinction is more subtle. Perhaps my last thought was all too swathing. It is not IN YOUR FACE but it is there.

And I have found over the years the class distinction in the UK is mixed up with the arrogance of many who believe they have RIGHTS of breeding - and some confuse that with the ability to make money from the poor on the pitch.

Bitchin again.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

They are different but don't have a higher status.

Because they earned the respect and continue to do so.

But he's no longer a Canadian. His citizenship was withdrawn when he became a Lord

Re: Is the dream real?
 

I think it's wrong to suggest that granting official status to one minority language in a country where there are myriad minority languages doesn't amount to higher status. I'm not distressed that francophones get preferential treatment over, say, speakers of Cantonese but it's undeniable that they do. In any case, Quebec society distinguishes between the pur laine and the merely francophone.

You said that you hadn't run into anyone who "demands respect and preferential treatment because of their geneology". Saying that the respect has been earned doesn't invalidate the perfect example; people who have native status are granted tax exemptions due to their geneology.

Black's giving up citizenship to become a Lord is the pinnacle of traditional white Canadian social status, it's a different snobbery from the UK as British snobs think they're above other people, Canadian ones know they're not. Nonetheless, it's an example of the class system operating in Canada.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

If you really don't think there's a class system in Canada, read anything by this slavering hagiographer of the elite :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_C._Newman

Re: Is the dream real?
 

It'd be hard to find many real pur laine these days.

On another matter, seeing as how you're here, when your daughter does her lifeguard stuff, what is the basis on which she's employed? Salaried employee? Freelance/self-employed? Cash under the table? Is she taxed at source?

Re: Is the dream real?
 

If she's working for the city she's taxed at source but gets it back at the end of the year. If she's working for a private facility, guarding or coaching, it's typically paid in cash.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

Thanks. In the first case, is she classed as self-employed? I'm thinking about tax implications here. Deductions in particular.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

No, she's a unionised employee.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

Damn. I was hoping the Boy's new scooter could be counted as a deduction.

I'm really getting into this tax lark.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

Wow! That told me! Only jokin'. Thanks for your comments - I accept what you're saying, but I suppose we can never fully get across our full situation/meaning within a few comments in these threads. We have put about 5 years of thought and research into this and into our life here and we are aware of the negatives aswell as the positives for living in both countries. The one thing we cannot know for sure is what the actual experience of emigrating feels like (we won't know until we do it), hence the original question on this thread. We're not as naive as our thread may sound! But as far as these specifics go:
- all politicians have a major potential to be crooked, no matter where you live - their world is so far removed from the 'real' people they 'run' that complete satisfaction within any population would be impossible
- yes, we have friends here and I suppose many people in the UK have a community feel to their area, we don't, but I don't doubt that it exists somewhere in the void!
- the 'right' place - yep, I see what you're saying there, but at least we will have some control over where we live in Canada (as we do here), so we're not afraid to shop around to get the right 'fit' - it sounds like many people who took the leap to Canada have success stories to tell

I know I asked for negative views aswell as positives, but it would be nice for more people to sing the praises of Canada, if that's how they feel - most of the members of this site had the same goal at some point - a better life in Canada (if that wasn't the aim, surely they wouldn't be going?) - so has this happened - have you got that 'better' life you craved, successful migrants??!!

:) Thanks for keeping it real, Tiaribbon - have no fear, our eyes are wide open!!

Re: Is the dream real?
 

Having been here almost 40 years my life has to have been better in Canada. I was offered more opportunities for personal development than in the UK such as an opportunity to get in the computer business and into management including starting in my own business. In the nineteen sixties England the environment simply would not encourage such efforts.

I've also had the opportunity to travel around Canada and the U.S.

Of course things are much different now the UK so what constitutes a "better life" is a very personal thing. It could be adventure, different lifestyle, different geography, different career.

Re: Is the dream real?
 

One of the reasons your question is difficult to answer is that what you want is a moving target, at least it has been for me.

Okay, my situation isn’t quite the same as yours, in that I came here from South Africa, not the UK. Still, I imagine some of the same principles apply.

When we first arrived here everything seemed wonderful. The fact that my husband had narrowly escaped being sent to the illegal war that South Africa was waging in Angola was a HUGE, HUGE relief.

Back then, in the late 1970s, I found that Canada was much more advanced than South Africa was when it came to “women’s lib.” I reveled in my new found freedom. Discovering the Canadian Rockies was awesome (and continues to be). Our first Canadian Christmas, after a lifetime of summer Christmases up to that point, was a fairy tale come true.

When we had children and they later went to school, I relished the education system that was more user-friendly than the one in which I had been educated. Now my kids (early – mid twenties) have atrocious hand writing. They didn’t have those daily penmanship drills that I had when I was a kid. But who cares? They do almost everything they need to do on computers. Instead they became confident public speakers at an early age, and acquired many other skills.

But now, almost thirty years later, I’m a different person from the one who first landed in Calgary. Am I thrilled that I can address my boss as John instead of Mr. Smith? No. I take it for granted.

Am I impressed that Canadian society, on average, is much less racist than South African society was in the 1970s? No. I most certainly am not. I hold Canada to a different standard. With all the advantages that my fellow Canadians enjoy, they SHOULD behave better than South Africans of the 1970s did. It would be an utter disgrace if they didn’t.

Did I appreciate Canada when I visited Mexico and later Serbia? You bet I did. But do I think Canada is performing as it should when it comes to support for its less fortunate citizens, protection of the environment, etc.? No, I don’t. I would say Canada’s performance is adequate but not stellar, considering what it could afford to do if it really cared.

Returning again to your question, did I get the better life that I craved? Yes, I did get it. Did it make me happy? Up to a point.

I live in a 2,700 sq ft house with an attached garage operated by an automatic door opener on a street of similar sized houses with attached garages operated by automatic door openers. We are on good terms with our next door neighbours on one side. We shovel each others’ driveways and collect each others’ mail when we go on vacation, and have occasional meals at each others’ houses. Beyond that, we go for months without seeing the rest of the people on our street, especially during the winter when people drive up to their houses, hit the remote buttons to open their garage doors, and go inside.

About five years ago I found a church where I met wonderful people with whom I have formed close friendships. That too has been a moving target. For three – four years I was thrilled to have discovered like-minded people in Calgary. But for the last year or so I have felt increasingly frustrated that this “critical mass” of kindred spirits is located on the other side of Calgary from where I live.

I find my own neighbourhood lonely. I suppose I should be grateful that I have a roof over my head, that I’m warm enough, etc. But it comes back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, doesn’t it? I have oxygen, water, food, and a comfortable temperature. I even have an interesting job. So now I take those things for granted, and I want more. I want meaningful human interactions in my neighbourhood.

But my husband likes our neighbourhood as it is. In this neighbourhood we can afford a house that is large enough to accommodate his addiction to books. Also, we’re next to a pleasant lake along which we walk and on which we canoe in the summers. (I admit I like that aspect of it too.)

Now that we’re empty nesters and we don’t need the space any more (or at least we wouldn’t if it weren’t for my husband’s book collection), I want to trade our big suburban house in for a smaller property in a closer-in but more vibrant neighbourhood (and one that, coincidentally, is closer to the friends whom I’ve met through my church).

My husband and I have discussed this, and we’ve agreed to a compromise. For the time being we’re going to stay where we are, but we’re going to make a concerted effort to get more involved with our neighbours this coming summer. My first project will be to invite them to a block barbecue. I already do some volunteer work with the group of people who care for the park around the nearby lake. Another part of my plan is to increase those volunteer efforts (by, for example, working with a group of people who weed out invasive non-native plants). The people who care about the wetland wilderness at the west end of the park are a good bunch, and it would be nice to have more contact with them.

In hindsight I would say that I had more contact with people in our current neighbourhood when our children were younger. When our kids were pre-schoolers, I belonged to a parents-and-tots play group. Later I did volunteer work at their school, and also got to know other parents when our younger son played ice hockey. I met some really nice people through the school and hockey. Now that we are empty nesters, I’m finding that it is taking more thought and planning to retain a feeling of connection in this community.

If a point has emerged from this rambling message, I suppose it is the fact that migration does not stop your life clock. A migrant will still go through life’s stages. He/she may have children, he/she certainly will grow middle aged and old (unless he/she dies before that), the children (if any) will reach adulthood, and so on. As you reach each of these stages, you have to reinvent yourself, so to speak, and leave your former self behind. That happens, to some extent, regardless of whether you stay put or migrate.