jericho

On the subject of single motherss, I know two- my sister in law and my cousin.

Neither can afford to go back to work because the wages they would get are less than the benefits they currently receive. Seems like a messed up system to me.

With my own personal circumstances, we have two children (2 & 3).
If my wife was to go back to work (dental nurse) we'd be something like £6000 a year worse off than we are with her not working (due to the cost of child care). Again, what a crazy system. Who does it benefit?

Fact is, there is very little encouragement for a lot of people to go to work.
Rather than encourage people to have more kids, thus making the problem worse, the government should be encouraging people back to work- especially those that would like to work but would be financially worse off by doing so.

BristolUK

Are you absolutely sure? Until 2004 when I was working in a job centre there were actually very few people who were worse off by working or increasing hours worked.

You may well be one - obviously I don't know - but I do know that many people assume they lose all the benefits or don't have an entitlement to a different benefit if they go to work or increase hours.

In my time in DSS/DWP I came across many many people who thought they'd be worse off because the wage of a job they looked at was less than their JSA and Housing Benefit combined...not realising they could still keep some HB. It may not have been a huge gain, but it kept them in the job market, maybe hours could increase later and there were other advantages.

Many parents never knew about the tax credits and the fact that child care costs would be allowed for.

Now I do know there are people for whom those allowances were not adequate and there were extra problems if there was a mortgage involved. But there were a whole lot more people gaining hugely once they'd seen the "in work" income calculations.

dboy

My ex-sister in law was a single mom in Surrey (talk about sterotypes). She spent 10 years chipping away at a law degree - was very tenacious was able to get grants etc. She struggled and had many ups and downs. In the end she was called to the bar and now is practices family law on the island.

Dave+Jules

Good for her!

I used the Open University after leaving the Army (I left school at 16 to join the Army). It was a long road and no grants, but well worth it in the end. It gave me a well paid second career and it led us to Canada and a great job!

I always admire people who perserve to improve their own situation because I know how hard it is to hold down a job, feed the family and study to improve your opportunities.

Jazzflute

What a fab woman! I hope many people read this post and reconsider their views about 'single parents'. I can imagine her struggles while undertaking the law degree, especially over 10 years, but what a terrific outcome! My first degree was just three years and I'm proud to say that I worked at every available opportunity and could only watch on enviously as many of the younger students spent much of their spare time in pubs etc!!

Jazzflute

I can imagine how much money you had to fork out for your OU study, but as you say it was more than worth it! Your lovely web album proves that - what great photos! I shall tell my brother about the OU as he's in the army and is always wondering what he's going to do once on 'civvie street'.

SteveHarris

Warm weather - try Victoria...

Piff Poff

Do either of you remeber the huge government campaign 'Be better off working?'

I do - I was fed up being at home with a two year old and no adult conversation, I had no support from family or just a friend who would babysit and I would return the favour, I had gone back to night school to update a couple of qualifications (the cheap ones) while my friend babysat. I was encouraged to go back to work after hearing that, thinking well It can't be anyworse than it is. Beleive me the benifits did change - for the worse, I wanted to better the life my child and I had - a good week was when the child benefit was due, then I could actually buy some decent food and DD could get an ice cream from the ice cream van - when I started working little treats like that became fewer, my income went down around 20 pounds a month - may not seem like much to some but it was a fortune to me, I remember getting the letter that some bill or other had increased and sobbing my heart out and wondering how the hell I was going to do it. I look back on those days and think where they have taken me - without that hardship I may not be where I am now, I certainly appreciate what I have but I do have a fear that one day I will lose the security I now enjoy - in fact it terrifies me so much I don't look at the bank accounts - how else could I let hubby spend what he wants on cars and stuff???? If he says it's all right then it must be so!

As a matter of fact the other day I bought some garlic bread - it was good, hubby asked the following night if we had any left, no I said, but I could get some while I'm out, how much was he said - I dunno was my reply - he was astounded when I told him I had just chucked it in the trolley without looking

I hope none of you ever know the humiliation of standing in line on a Tuesday to get your benefit check with all the old biddies looking at you and tutting. I hope none of you ever know the humiliation of having to invite someone into your home when all you have to sit on is a bean bag and some blankets and you have no carpet on your bare floor boards - or if your lucky a broken down sofa that someone has given you because it is humiliating and it's tough to keep on going, it's tough to go to work and the ladies in the office are putting into a trip to London fund and you can't afford to, it's tough taking your treasure to a day care for someone else to bring up.

I know there are people that work the system - my next door neighbour was one of them and it used to make me so angry to see someone on probation getting a credit check for this and one for that and then getting someone in free to do the garden and paint the house when I kept getting turned down for the same things because I was working.

BristolUK

Yes I do.
For some it didn't work for particular jobs they had in mind. For others there wasn't that much of a gain although there could have been other advantages.

But for many, many more there were considerable gains if they took all that was offered....extended Housing Benefit, grants for things needed to start work, continuing HB, Tax Credits, After school clubs etc

The majority of those I interviewed for "Better off" would make significant gains...usually £80 a week or more. There were those who'd be worse off but that was more down to high child care costs or a particular wage on offer.

I think part of the problem on "take-up" is the mindset that compares the new set of circumstances in a negative way with the Benefit income.

It's perfectly understandable that someone says (when everything is in place) I'll be working and I'll only be better off by £XX a week.

What needs to be remembered is that EVERYONE has benefit levels to fall back on if they're not working.

For every person that thinks working for that £XX gain isn't worth it, there is someone working whose total income would only drop by £XX if they were on benefits instead. That person in work sees the positives so doesn't contemplate putting themselves in the position the other person is in.

As I say...some would be worse off, some not much better off. But there are many "in work" recipients of tax credits and Housing Benefits. They do consider they are better off otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

Almost Canadian

So, what I have gained from reading some of the posts above is: Screw taxpayers, it's only if I, in my individual capacity, am better off that I should work.

Such an attitude, unfortunately, is one of the reasons why I am glad I live in North America where, whilst there are those that subscribe to such theories, the mainstream public don't

I am all for providing a safety net for those that experience hard times, the suggestion that it is "OK" to be on any form of benefits as working will only provide you with a little extra income so why bother, is abnoxious to me.

el_richo

An issue i see with the "I'm better off not working" mentality is that it's very short-sighted, especially for single parents. The reason being that the longer you're out of work and claiming, the less employable you become in the capacity of a career.

Kids get older, go to school, leave home etc etc and as the freedom of the parent develops, so can the career and income leading to potentially a more comfortable existence and retirement.

Plus it also, i believe, feeds the work mentality to the children.

All in my opinion of course and obviously it's not as clear cut for a few people, yet for many i believe it could well be.

albertabound

When I was a single parent (widowed) I was never out of work. I had a next door neighbour in a similar situation who did not work.
She had heaps more disposable income than I did because she had her house paid for her by housing benefit. I had to pay my mortgage.
When I saw the time she could spend with her children it did make me wonder "is it worth it"
I am now proud of the fact that I have always worked but sometimes I do ponder what I missed with my children.
I do hate the "its not worth me working" attitude. I think going out to work, especially if you are on your own is physiologically rewarding. But... there are many women who simply cannot go to work.
Each case should be judged on its own merits and not a sweep of the board.
Tina

BristolUK

Part of the problem now is that the gains from working are not as great as they once were.

Benefits are still low, but maybe not as low as they once were. The rates included for children now are much, much higer than just a few years ago. The Income Support rate for a child is now £56...almost as much as for an adult. Just over 10 years ago it was between £15 and £30 depending on age, so parents may be getting almost 4 times as much for younger kids than they did not many years ago. That immediately reduces any gain from working compared to previously.

From memory, about 12 years ago a lone parent of two kids had an Income Support level of about £100; 4 years on and it was around £137. I see it's £193 now. How many peple have seen a near doubling of income over 12 years and a 40% rise over the last 8 years?


When dental treatment was mostly (or all) NHS, people on certain benefits didn't pay...and people in work only paid a few quid.

Now, with so many dentists only doing NHS work for those exempt, people in work are faced with paying hundreds just for cover.

If the gap is closer than it was it's not so easy to make the change to work and if people are actually going to be worse off by working I don't think they can be blamed by putting their kids first and staying on benefits.

BristolUK

Agreed. Those are some of the other advantages I alluded to.

Piff Poff

I was one of those that was worse off, I went from scraping by to panic! I also went from Part time so I could still be a Mum to full time and having someone else raise my child so I could go back to scraping by BUT I could say I brought some money, had it not been for housing benefits I would have been homeless (again) Working family tax credits came in a little later - obviously my situation would have been better if the biological father had enough responsibility to help pay for his childs upbringing and no the CSA DID NOT HELP!


Benefits in my experience only work if you know how to milk the system - I didn't and I still don't.