Decided not to go
Nov 30th 2004, 3:26 pm
#151
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 23
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by Jonny
I think it's valid for 6 months and then you have to switch to a UK license, if you have a Canadian license for automatic, you will get a UK license for automatic only, unless you pass a test. If you have a manual Canadian license, you can trade it in for a full UK license... I think
Nov 30th 2004, 3:46 pm
#152
The Green Engine
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver - soon
Posts: 4,400
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by KimS
I take your point to mean (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that because the UK has a much larger pool to draw from, it stands to reason that non-UK/EU job seekers are unlikely to get a look-in, and that's a fair point.
What I see in my job is scores of newly-minted UK graduates being forced to compete with scores of EU graduates for UK jobs, and experienced UK workers losing in the job stakes to recently-arrived Eastern Europeans who are willing to do anything in order to stay in the UK. Canada doesn't have the option of thousands of skilled migrants like the UK at the moment (patently its own fault), but we do have high unemployment in some places (the Maritimes in particular). I think much of this stonewalling is thrown up so the locals first crack at anything available, and seeing it from this side of the drink, I can *almost* understand it. (I'm not saying that's ethically right, particularly if there are genuine skills shortages which can only be met through outside recruitment of people like the Liftmans.)
Not meaning to be antagonistic: just sayin'!
What I see in my job is scores of newly-minted UK graduates being forced to compete with scores of EU graduates for UK jobs, and experienced UK workers losing in the job stakes to recently-arrived Eastern Europeans who are willing to do anything in order to stay in the UK. Canada doesn't have the option of thousands of skilled migrants like the UK at the moment (patently its own fault), but we do have high unemployment in some places (the Maritimes in particular). I think much of this stonewalling is thrown up so the locals first crack at anything available, and seeing it from this side of the drink, I can *almost* understand it. (I'm not saying that's ethically right, particularly if there are genuine skills shortages which can only be met through outside recruitment of people like the Liftmans.)
Not meaning to be antagonistic: just sayin'!
On the flip side the companies I'have worked for in the last few years in the UK have been pretty diverse. One had had employees from
Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, America, Malaysia and Hong Kong.
Proof that if you are any good you can a get a job and come to the UK despite the competition.
Nov 30th 2004, 4:00 pm
#153
mañana is my busiest day
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
Re: Decided not to go
[QUOTE=KimS]
Kudos to you for providing a little balance here and setting the record straight.
Originally Posted by discouraged
Why is it so unreasonable as a professional person to expect to get what you want straight away, if you're good enough? Professional Canadians coming to the UK are given every opportunity to do so. They certainly aren't expected to jump through hoops to earn the privilege of making a living at what they are qualified to do.]
Er, no, Canadians do not get every chance and we do have to jump through hoops. In fact, it is practically impossible for a non-EU citizen to get into the UK unless she or he can take employment in a sector with a skills shortage (or is claiming asylum, refugee status, etc.). Believe me, I am currently a recruitment consultant in the UK, and I know the routes for entry like the back of my hand.
I am also a Canadian who came to the UK with a very good first degree, and Bachelor of Education degree, and the better part of a Masters degree in the subject I had chosen to teach.
The teacher shortage in the UK was so severe at the time of my application that candidates were being lured out of trade industries and being given 6K to take a Post Graduate Certificate in Teaching, and they did not need to be university graduates. A proper degree in Education exceeds a UK PgCert in Education by quite a stretch, and still I was viewed as being not on par with people who had never even considered teaching before the incentives were offered. I was told I would have to undergo a specialised programme and get myself sponsored by a willing school (which I would have to locate and contact myself).
I won't go on at length, but I was pretty insulted and since I was married to a Brit, I had the luxury of being able to find a job in another field when my permission to remain came through.
A lot has been said about Canada and its protectionist policies, but the same can be said of many other nations, the UK included. In my current position, I am required to ascertain AND PROVE that there is no candidate in the UK (and now, probably the EU as well) who is sufficently qualified to take a job before I can consider a non UK applicant.
As a side note, the number of Canadians I have had trying to gain employment through my agency in the last five years can be counted on one hand. The number of Australians, and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders, has been in the hundreds, which suggests to me that most Canadians appreciate that the UK doesn't owe them anything, including opportunities.
Er, no, Canadians do not get every chance and we do have to jump through hoops. In fact, it is practically impossible for a non-EU citizen to get into the UK unless she or he can take employment in a sector with a skills shortage (or is claiming asylum, refugee status, etc.). Believe me, I am currently a recruitment consultant in the UK, and I know the routes for entry like the back of my hand.
I am also a Canadian who came to the UK with a very good first degree, and Bachelor of Education degree, and the better part of a Masters degree in the subject I had chosen to teach.
The teacher shortage in the UK was so severe at the time of my application that candidates were being lured out of trade industries and being given 6K to take a Post Graduate Certificate in Teaching, and they did not need to be university graduates. A proper degree in Education exceeds a UK PgCert in Education by quite a stretch, and still I was viewed as being not on par with people who had never even considered teaching before the incentives were offered. I was told I would have to undergo a specialised programme and get myself sponsored by a willing school (which I would have to locate and contact myself).
I won't go on at length, but I was pretty insulted and since I was married to a Brit, I had the luxury of being able to find a job in another field when my permission to remain came through.
A lot has been said about Canada and its protectionist policies, but the same can be said of many other nations, the UK included. In my current position, I am required to ascertain AND PROVE that there is no candidate in the UK (and now, probably the EU as well) who is sufficently qualified to take a job before I can consider a non UK applicant.
As a side note, the number of Canadians I have had trying to gain employment through my agency in the last five years can be counted on one hand. The number of Australians, and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders, has been in the hundreds, which suggests to me that most Canadians appreciate that the UK doesn't owe them anything, including opportunities.
Nov 30th 2004, 4:43 pm
#154
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 1,583
Re: Decided not to go
[QUOTE=KimS]
It is an excellent post. It does shed some light on the real differences between Canadian and UK immigration policy.
I'll say it again, in the UK, employment-based (skilled worker) immigration is employer driven. In Canada, it is immigrant driven. What that means is that in Canada you have the opportunity to immigrate, even if you're unqualified. In the UK you cannot. The US system is similar to the UK's.
So I suppose you can look at it in one of two ways. You can praise Canada's immigration system, because it gives people a chance to immigrate who would not otherwise, or you can - as I do - find fault in Canada's immigration system for encouraging applications from unqualified candidates who, because they are unqualified, join the general labour pool and compete with Canadians for jobs. That's a bad thing for Canada and for professional immigrants from rich countries.
For really qualified applicants I'd say consider the US. If you're a properly qualified British nurse, for example, you should not have too much trouble finding a US company to bring you over to work as a nurse. Employer driven immigration systems work!
Originally Posted by discouraged
Why is it so unreasonable as a professional person to expect to get what you want straight away, if you're good enough? Professional Canadians coming to the UK are given every opportunity to do so. They certainly aren't expected to jump through hoops to earn the privilege of making a living at what they are qualified to do.]
Er, no, Canadians do not get every chance and we do have to jump through hoops. In fact, it is practically impossible for a non-EU citizen to get into the UK unless she or he can take employment in a sector with a skills shortage (or is claiming asylum, refugee status, etc.). Believe me, I am currently a recruitment consultant in the UK, and I know the routes for entry like the back of my hand.
I am also a Canadian who came to the UK with a very good first degree, and Bachelor of Education degree, and the better part of a Masters degree in the subject I had chosen to teach.
The teacher shortage in the UK was so severe at the time of my application that candidates were being lured out of trade industries and being given 6K to take a Post Graduate Certificate in Teaching, and they did not need to be university graduates. A proper degree in Education exceeds a UK PgCert in Education by quite a stretch, and still I was viewed as being not on par with people who had never even considered teaching before the incentives were offered. I was told I would have to undergo a specialised programme and get myself sponsored by a willing school (which I would have to locate and contact myself).
I won't go on at length, but I was pretty insulted and since I was married to a Brit, I had the luxury of being able to find a job in another field when my permission to remain came through.
A lot has been said about Canada and its protectionist policies, but the same can be said of many other nations, the UK included. In my current position, I am required to ascertain AND PROVE that there is no candidate in the UK (and now, probably the EU as well) who is sufficently qualified to take a job before I can consider a non UK applicant.
As a side note, the number of Canadians I have had trying to gain employment through my agency in the last five years can be counted on one hand. The number of Australians, and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders, has been in the hundreds, which suggests to me that most Canadians appreciate that the UK doesn't owe them anything, including opportunities.
Er, no, Canadians do not get every chance and we do have to jump through hoops. In fact, it is practically impossible for a non-EU citizen to get into the UK unless she or he can take employment in a sector with a skills shortage (or is claiming asylum, refugee status, etc.). Believe me, I am currently a recruitment consultant in the UK, and I know the routes for entry like the back of my hand.
I am also a Canadian who came to the UK with a very good first degree, and Bachelor of Education degree, and the better part of a Masters degree in the subject I had chosen to teach.
The teacher shortage in the UK was so severe at the time of my application that candidates were being lured out of trade industries and being given 6K to take a Post Graduate Certificate in Teaching, and they did not need to be university graduates. A proper degree in Education exceeds a UK PgCert in Education by quite a stretch, and still I was viewed as being not on par with people who had never even considered teaching before the incentives were offered. I was told I would have to undergo a specialised programme and get myself sponsored by a willing school (which I would have to locate and contact myself).
I won't go on at length, but I was pretty insulted and since I was married to a Brit, I had the luxury of being able to find a job in another field when my permission to remain came through.
A lot has been said about Canada and its protectionist policies, but the same can be said of many other nations, the UK included. In my current position, I am required to ascertain AND PROVE that there is no candidate in the UK (and now, probably the EU as well) who is sufficently qualified to take a job before I can consider a non UK applicant.
As a side note, the number of Canadians I have had trying to gain employment through my agency in the last five years can be counted on one hand. The number of Australians, and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders, has been in the hundreds, which suggests to me that most Canadians appreciate that the UK doesn't owe them anything, including opportunities.
I'll say it again, in the UK, employment-based (skilled worker) immigration is employer driven. In Canada, it is immigrant driven. What that means is that in Canada you have the opportunity to immigrate, even if you're unqualified. In the UK you cannot. The US system is similar to the UK's.
So I suppose you can look at it in one of two ways. You can praise Canada's immigration system, because it gives people a chance to immigrate who would not otherwise, or you can - as I do - find fault in Canada's immigration system for encouraging applications from unqualified candidates who, because they are unqualified, join the general labour pool and compete with Canadians for jobs. That's a bad thing for Canada and for professional immigrants from rich countries.
For really qualified applicants I'd say consider the US. If you're a properly qualified British nurse, for example, you should not have too much trouble finding a US company to bring you over to work as a nurse. Employer driven immigration systems work!
Nov 30th 2004, 4:48 pm
#155
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 1,583
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by KimS
...As a side note, the number of Canadians I have had trying to gain employment through my agency in the last five years can be counted on one hand. The number of Australians, and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders, has been in the hundreds, which suggests to me that most Canadians appreciate that the UK doesn't owe them anything, including opportunities.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
Nov 30th 2004, 4:55 pm
#156
The Green Engine
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver - soon
Posts: 4,400
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
But on this my response would be that Canadians go to the US, not the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
http://www.southern-cross-group.org/.../overview.html
Can't find any more useful statistics
Nov 30th 2004, 6:05 pm
#157
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 23
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
But on this my response would be that Canadians go to the US, not the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
I was always under the impression that a Canadian getting into the US via the employment route was a bit like threading a camel through the eye of a needle. Now being a rich man, or a rich retiree... that's probably easier! (Cue Anne Murray singing the Snowbird song.)
It's the old Green Card issue with the US, no matter where you hail from. I remember a humorous documentary called the 'Canadian Conspiracy' that insinuated Lorne Greene (Greene: code name for Green Card) was the head of the conspiritors who were flooding the US with superior comedians and dismantling it through comedic subversity. Might be true!
Nov 30th 2004, 6:08 pm
#158
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Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 1,583
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by KimS
...I was always under the impression that a Canadian getting into the US via the employment route was a bit like threading a camel through the eye of a needle. Now being a rich man, or a rich retiree... that's probably easier! (Cue Anne Murray singing the Snowbird song.)...
Nov 30th 2004, 6:12 pm
#159
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by KimS
I should stop replying, or I'm going to look like I'm spoiling for an argument!
I was always under the impression that a Canadian getting into the US via the employment route was a bit like threading a camel through the eye of a needle. Now being a rich man, or a rich retiree... that's probably easier! (Cue Anne Murray singing the Snowbird song.)
It's the old Green Card issue with the US, no matter where you hail from. I remember a humorous documentary called the 'Canadian Conspiracy' that insinuated Lorne Greene (Greene: code name for Green Card) was the head of the conspiritors who were flooding the US with superior comedians and dismantling it through comedic subversity. Might be true!
I was always under the impression that a Canadian getting into the US via the employment route was a bit like threading a camel through the eye of a needle. Now being a rich man, or a rich retiree... that's probably easier! (Cue Anne Murray singing the Snowbird song.)
It's the old Green Card issue with the US, no matter where you hail from. I remember a humorous documentary called the 'Canadian Conspiracy' that insinuated Lorne Greene (Greene: code name for Green Card) was the head of the conspiritors who were flooding the US with superior comedians and dismantling it through comedic subversity. Might be true!
when i was in the uk, a couple of years ago, i looked into emigrating to the US. Regardless of my canadian citizenship and my experience, it was next to impossible. my choices? i could apply through the green card lottery, or i could find an employer willing to sponsor me.. thing is, i couldnt find any job opportunities that would sponsor me. all indicated that if they hired non-residents, the applicants would have to have their own visa (H1, i believe, but i could be wrong..) ok, im not in the nursing profession, nor am i a doctor or one of the Professions (whatever they may be).
and i really didnt fancy marrying an american just for the sake of getting in...
Nov 30th 2004, 6:15 pm
#160
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Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 1,583
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by Velouria
i am canadian and lived in the uk for eight years. i just recently returned to canada... west this time, not back east!
when i was in the uk, a couple of years ago, i looked into emigrating to the US. Regardless of my canadian citizenship and my experience, it was next to impossible. my choices? i could apply through the green card lottery, or i could find an employer willing to sponsor me.. thing is, i couldnt find any job opportunities that would sponsor me. all indicated that if they hired non-residents, the applicants would have to have their own visa (H1, i believe, but i could be wrong..) ok, im not in the nursing profession, nor am i a doctor or one of the Professions (whatever they may be).
and i really didnt fancy marrying an american just for the sake of getting in...
when i was in the uk, a couple of years ago, i looked into emigrating to the US. Regardless of my canadian citizenship and my experience, it was next to impossible. my choices? i could apply through the green card lottery, or i could find an employer willing to sponsor me.. thing is, i couldnt find any job opportunities that would sponsor me. all indicated that if they hired non-residents, the applicants would have to have their own visa (H1, i believe, but i could be wrong..) ok, im not in the nursing profession, nor am i a doctor or one of the Professions (whatever they may be).
and i really didnt fancy marrying an american just for the sake of getting in...
Nov 30th 2004, 6:16 pm
#161
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Waukee, Iowa
Posts: 1,583
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by SirTainly
According to this website there are 200-300 000 Australians in the UK at any one time.
http://www.southern-cross-group.org/.../overview.html
Can't find any more useful statistics
http://www.southern-cross-group.org/.../overview.html
Can't find any more useful statistics
Nov 30th 2004, 6:17 pm
#162
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
Excellent. You see, the US employer-based system works.
Where does it say on the CIC website that if you meet the minimum number of points you are guaranteed a job though? i think thats what confuses a lot of people...
Nov 30th 2004, 6:20 pm
#163
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,062
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
But on this my response would be that Canadians go to the US, not the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
Many Canadians go to the US is because their employer transfers them which probably considerably outnumbers those going on spec.
Nov 30th 2004, 8:24 pm
#164
mañana is my busiest day
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
Posts: 2,636
Re: Decided not to go
Originally Posted by CalgaryAMC
But on this my response would be that Canadians go to the US, not the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
I would be willing to bet you that the number of Canadians going to the US each year exceeds the number of Australians going to the UK.
Dec 1st 2004, 6:14 am
#165
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 167
Re: Decided not to go
I agree with Liftman and family.
I take the side of my people - the immigrants.
If you are allowed to immigrate, there needs to be a
fair palying field.
- You are not Canadian Citizen
- You do not have Canadian degree, qualifications and experience
- pre qualification for foreign degree holders.
All are discriminatory and should be condemned.
Against Human spirit.
If you can not treat us equally, who want your immigration.
Keep your country with you.
We keep ours with us.
Never ever bend our heads before your stupid
officials.
I take the side of my people - the immigrants.
If you are allowed to immigrate, there needs to be a
fair palying field.
- You are not Canadian Citizen
- You do not have Canadian degree, qualifications and experience
- pre qualification for foreign degree holders.
All are discriminatory and should be condemned.
Against Human spirit.
If you can not treat us equally, who want your immigration.
Keep your country with you.
We keep ours with us.
Never ever bend our heads before your stupid
officials.