Crime rates

Old Sep 9th 2008, 1:44 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by Jules Europe View Post
Comparing crime levels between rural Vermont and rural Ontario I find that puzzling becuase one has a population of 600.000 approx and the other 12.000.000 approx better to compare the Ontario example to say California or New York
"Rural" means "in the country" or "not in the city". No State or Province has a rural population of 12,000,000 as, if it did, it wouldn't be rural.

Crime comparisons are notorious difficult as definitions of crimes and cultural inclinations as regards reporting differ, nonetheless you have to start with areas of similar population density, try Rutland VT vs. Owen Sound ON.

There is no value in a comparison of complete State to complete Province as within States and Provinces the crime rates vary enormously; similarly one might compare crime in London and Glasgow but not London and the Orkneys.

Last edited by dbd33; Sep 9th 2008 at 1:48 pm.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 1:45 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

The Eaton Centre, a large shopping mall in downtown Toronto is someone's turf. Hence the shooting of bystanders right outside. The theatre district is someone else's turf, hence the many shootings there. Farmland tends not to be anyone's turf so, if you stay away from buildings, you'll be fine.

When a turf war splashes over into areas where the general public frequent then there is very little that can be done, much like terrorists that plant bombs, gunmen that go on rampages etc Little can be done to limit these events. These are tragedies that the authorities have little power to control.

Besides the lack of guns, how is it unique?
Mentioned that on a previous post today

Most immigrants to Canada are from third world countries and are not able to choose where they live which is why they end up in shit areas full of crime and poverty, but I wasn't taking about them. I was talking about you, the typical emigrant from the UK.[/QUOTE]

The typical immigrant from the UK most definitely in general (at the moment not so well given the economic downturn in the UK) can enjoy a better lifestyle in either USA or Canada given that property prices are a lot more economical there.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 1:51 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
"Rural" means "in the country" or "not in the city". No State or Province has a rural population of 12,000,000 as, if it did, it wouldn't be rural.

Crime comparisons are notorious difficult as definitions of crimes and cultural inclinations as regards reporting differ, nonetheless you have to start with areas of similar population density, try Rutland VT vs. Owen Sound ON.
But rural crime nearly everywhere is not particularly high whether it be Uk, Canada, USA etc (albeit there are going to be exceptions to this rule) so there should be no need for you to mention this. When people refer to crime in a country they are talking about cities and built up areas etc not the tranquility of rural living.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 1:55 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by Jules Europe View Post
Besides the lack of guns, how is it unique?
Mentioned that on a previous post today.
I've reread your posts but don't see it. You say some crimes in the UK are commited without financial motive, well I know of a case here of someone being shot dead in what the police think was a gang initiation, there was no other apparent motive. No money involved. I suggest that crimes without financial motive happen everywhere, what about the crime passionel?

You then say that crime in the UK will get worse with the economic downturn, that suggests that financial motivation is a factor, well people rob banks here too.

Again, crime's a problem in the UK and in many other places, what's unique about the UK?
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 1:59 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by Jules Europe View Post
But rural crime nearly everywhere is not particularly high whether it be Uk, Canada, USA etc (albeit there are going to be exceptions to this rule) so there should be no need for you to mention this. When people refer to crime in a country they are talking about cities and built up areas etc not the tranquility of rural living.
It was suggested upthread that it would be safer for an emigrant to live anywhere but the US (of the popular countries for emigration). Since most people in the US live rurally or in small towns and you say that rural life is safer that would seem to lay the canard of the US being particularly dangerous to rest.

I think that when people refer to crime rates for a country they can reasonably be thought to refer to the whole country; not the worst street corner in that country.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 2:17 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
I've reread your posts but don't see it. You say some crimes in the UK are commited without financial motive, well I know of a case here of someone being shot dead in what the police think was a gang initiation, there was no other apparent motive. No money involved. I suggest that crimes without financial motive happen everywhere, what about the crime passionel?

You then say that crime in the UK will get worse with the economic downturn, that suggests that financial motivation is a factor, well people rob banks here too.

Again, crime's a problem in the UK and in many other places, what's unique about the UK?
The gang killing that you mention has no bearing on financial or non financial reasons it is exactly as you said a believed initiation. what i said on my previous post is that crimes are now committed in the UK without any real motive and this is what Brits find most disturbing. Somebody can break into your home and then after the robbery decides they now want to kill you. Another case about the man recently that Brits will know of, that went out of his house to challenge a bunch of yobs that were making a noise in his street only to be kicked to death... These are the crimes that are very disturbing, crimes that the UK just did not have so much of in the past, kids carrying knives into schools and now actually using them to kill other kids. The point being these crimes are spontaneous and quite often unplanned and that is what is so disturbing.

The economic downturn doesn`t just mean people will have less money but all the other social problems that will go with it. Frustrations, stress and lack of hope all of which triggers for dangerous behaviour.

The huge problem is that the UK is a fraction of the size of Canada and has a population of 60 plus million whereas Canada has 30 plus million these figures and lack of space in the UK are other significant factors as well.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 2:22 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
It was suggested upthread that it would be safer for an emigrant to live anywhere but the US (of the popular countries for emigration). Since most people in the US live rurally or in small towns and you say that rural life is safer that would seem to lay the canard of the US being particularly dangerous to rest.

I think that when people refer to crime rates for a country they can reasonably be thought to refer to the whole country; not the worst street corner in that country.
A lot of Americans may indeed live in rural areas but a large amount also live in urban areas too. I said that if you are going to live in the USA then you need to choose your community carefully. This community could include either urban or rural areas. It is up to the potential immigrant to do their homework on these areas and choose the best for themselves. Some people will be more fussed than others concerning crime and some less.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 2:31 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by debbieeasby View Post
Having recieved a pm by a fellow member was just wondering about crime rates in Saskatoon , Yes we are realistic and know crime is everywhere but what is the crime like in Canada ?? Are looking at either Saskatoon or Calgary area and was a little alarmed that crime seems a big issue in Saskatoon is this the case ??
I guess that was me .

I read a claim recently that Saskatoon is one of the ten most dangerous cities in North America; but in a decade here between me and my girlfriend, our entire experience of crime has been a broken car window, one of our neighbours having their bike stolen, and someone spray-painting graffiti on a sign down the road... far less than I experienced in the UK. Most of the serious crime is concentrated in a few areas, particularly the murders; which largely seem to be drunk people stabbing each other to death.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 2:49 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by Jules Europe View Post
The huge problem is that the UK is a fraction of the size of Canada and has a population of 60 plus million whereas Canada has 30 plus million these figures and lack of space in the UK are other significant factors as well.
You forget that most of the population of Canada lives along the US border between Quebec and Detroit; the population density in urban Canada is the same as in urban Europe.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 2:51 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by Jules Europe View Post
A lot of Americans may indeed live in rural areas but a large amount also live in urban areas too. I said that if you are going to live in the USA then you need to choose your community carefully. This community could include either urban or rural areas. It is up to the potential immigrant to do their homework on these areas and choose the best for themselves. Some people will be more fussed than others concerning crime and some less.
The same is true of Canada and, indeed, the UK. It may be that an individual can afford to avoid crime in one country and not another due to shifts in property values and exchange rates but the problem of crime doesn't go away.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by MarkG View Post
particularly the murders; which largely seem to be drunk people stabbing each other to death.
That'll be a lot better than the UK then.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 3:29 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
You forget that most of the population of Canada lives along the US border between Quebec and Detroit; the population density in urban Canada is the same as in urban Europe.
I know that is where the majority of Canadians live but they still have the option of being near open space if they really want to. In the UK space is limited go to far and you will fall into the sea.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 3:30 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
That'll be a lot better than the UK then.
That seems to be pretty similar, really; an underclass who get drunk and violent because they have nothing much better to do.

But the problem seems to be far more localised to specific areas of the city here, whereas in most parts of the UK where I lived you could run into some violent drunk late at night pretty much anywhere. Only the most expensive areas were largely violence-free, and then you had to deal with people coming from outside the area to burgle your house because they thought you were rich.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

Just a few weeks ago in our little corner of Ontario we had a five year old girl murdered because allegedly her druggie parents owed the supplier some cash.

There really isn't anything all that different over here. As has already been stated Canada just presents some good opportunities if you bring a large wad of cash over or maybe if you happen to move from the far east or if it just happens to be the right move for you as an individual.

There's no magical and instant wonderful quality of life here along with crime free streets to walk along. Oh, and there's nothing especially wonderful for kiddies here either that means that they will be set up for life. You know, it's just a country. Some have a great time here, some don't and Canadians don't seem to see it as paradise.
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Old Sep 9th 2008, 3:50 pm
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Default Re: Crime rates

I have noticed this year that shootings/murders have been more frequent in areas that I go to which scares me in Toronto.

Yesterday's shooting at Keele/Eglinton, not an area I go to that much as we would go on the Keele bus north to York Lanes for the tennis but it scared me reading to me right in the middle of the afternoon at a bus stop.

Somebody was shot or stabbed at on the corner of Bloor/Lansdowne

Dufferin Mall, Yorkdale, the list goes on.

Before it used to be confined to certain areas, not it is spreading out.

I was in a middle of a shooting in Argentina in April and I still can't relax especially with loud noises, it scares the hell out of me.
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