Click reply rather than new reply, then edit the bits you dont want.

Or you can type quote=poster or quote and /quote in the[] square brackets to start and end a quoted snippet

Otherwise once you are in the editor the most right hand button (looks like a speach bubble) below the text formating line will put the quote commands around whatever you highlite.

Oh please...

Must admit it's nice being able to respond "I'm emigrating. No, seriously." to any questions regarding what I think of the outcome of yesterday's election.

"Democracy", from the greek -rule by the people.
somewhere along the line, the meaning has been distorted.
I think the theory of modern democracy is, hold up several different
colours, and the people will think they have a choice, and as long as
they think they have a choice, they will be happy. some of us have seen
the light and are now making our own minds up. There is very little choice,
and we have to make the best of it wherever we end up.
Quote " Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in
this world of sin and woe.No one pretends that Democracy is perfect or all
wise.Indeed,it has been said that democracyis the worst form of
government,except all those other forms that have been tried from time to
time."
Winston Churchill

Thats it, I've said my piece.

Are we talking about Bliar or Paul Martin? Hmm?

Yes, I'm a Labour supporter.
What a lot of tosh has been written here. The UK economy a mess? What planet are you on? Do any of you lot remember the +3 million jobless rates in the 1980's and early 90's? In 1992 the economy was in such a mess we got thrown out of the ERM! The British economy was complete basket case until Labour fixed it.
Britain has very low unemployment, low inflation, low interest rates, what's a mess about that? Give me a break!
The Iraq war was a terrible mistake, but sorry, the rest of this is complete rubbish.

Cr*p, Cr*p, Cr*p!!!

Error 1) The Bank of England sets the interest rates not Blair.
Error 2) House prices have risen due to greedy home-owners, not Blair.
Error 3) Worthless Beaurocrats? Like the thousands of new Nurses? Doctors? Teachers? Police?
Error 4) I don't blame Labour for booming crime, it's the just the way society in Britain is going. Do you *seriously* think Labour could do anything to stop chavs being scumbags for instance???
Error 5) Labour put banning foxhunting in their manifesto, on which they were elected. Do expect them to backtrack on it? I'm sure you'd have criticized them just as much if they'd done that!!
Error 6) You slate Labour for being authoritarian, yet then call them for being too lenient on criminals? Which is it?

Seems to me, Labour cannot possibly win here, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. I know from my perspective I was far better off financially under Blair than under Major. The UK has serious problems, but you're extremely naive to think Labour is to blame for all of them. Booming crime in particular is a problem in other European nations (Spain, France, Germany), it's not uniquely a British problem. A lot of it is due to poor parenting, drugs and alcohol abuse. I fail to see what else Labour can do to fix that.

The last bit - ie, 'has a baby' might apply in Canada, where all children born in the country are Canadian by birth.

It does not work in the UK as since 1983, at least one parent has to be a British citizen or a permanent resident for a UK born child to be British automatically.

Haveing a child born in Northern Ireland so as to pick up Irish citizenship from the ROI government was a loophole until recently, before the ROI government brought the law into line with the UK from 1.1.05.

Jeremy

The unemployment rate is 3+million now. The way unemployment has been calcultated has changed since the period you quote. If you were to back track you will find more similar figures. Not much change.

In 1992 the European Economy was in a fit of convlusion. Under the Major years the rate of economic prosperity OVERALL was not bad. In fact what you have seen during the last seven years is a continuation of the Tory later years. As I said and quote 'the first 20 of the last 50 economic growth quarters were under Tory leadership. Low inflation, low interest rates and a lowering unemployment rate was intended to and to a great degree was started in the early 90's - not the later 90's. When labour came to power (new labour) I had great fears of returning to the days of I am all right jack and the domination of the unions. Mr Blair did not do this and it is one thing I will commend him for as it has no place in an economic turmoil world.

I understand your ethics but look at the facts.

It matters little if the Torries or Labour run the country anymore as the factor that effects the western economies long term is cheap labour, high productivity, and dubious quality sectors from the once third world countries.

Today it takes a little more thinking power than to quoting Alf Garnet temperament.

The unemployment rate hasn't fallen... the unemployed just get moved to different categories. I was made redundant in 2004, and have been on jobseekers allowance ever since. I have now been offered a 're-training' course of 39 weeks. I have 37 years experience in my trade, but can no longer get a job. After 39 weeks, I am supposed to miraculously be employable again. However, officially I am no longer unemployed.

The interest rates have been kept low by the largest rate of borrowing that this country has ever known.

The low inflation is a myth...peoples disposable income has been falling steadily for years, because salaries have not kept pace with the so-called low inflation.

Most of the manufacturing companies have disappeared, with the subsequent loss of a major source of Government income. The only income left to the labour government is through personal taxation....both direct and indirect.

For once I agree with you in part except the emotional content. But in fact your wealth was greater under a tory leadership than under the current Labour Leadership if only by 1%. The problem, which I am guilty of is that we in the west have (those that listen and learn) have begun to fear of what may or may not happen. We are told that the East wants our lunch and our dinner. We are driven to think we are all going to be blown up. We are becomming frightened of the shadows and it is to a large extent that fear which propels us on to vote in odd ways.

Years ago I regularly entered and went through London during IRA scares and bombings etc. Although when walking past litter bins or cars it might have fleetingly crossed my mind I did not stop doing my daily business. Today through the media and governemental control we seem to be living more and more in the shadows.

I doubt much difference would be seen if the Tory party had been elected.

But and I put my neck out here. There has been underfunding of essential service for many many years. In fact since time began. You can never throw enough money at services to think it will solve the ills of the world. Labour had goals and ideals. I think and thought Mr Blair was a good intentioned man but it has gone wrong - not necessarily due to him but perhaps those around him and all under him. He can only lead - not actually do the work himself. After all Churchill never fought - he lead.

In the long term I fear more Mr Brown. I dare not say why as it gives me the willies.

What really pisses me off is when people start slamming Mrs Thatcher. I think schools should have a fact session of what happened when, why, and what the repurcussions were. Does Seacreature (I oppolgies fore not using your name and no offence intended for using such a nick name) recall living during the 70's when for 3 days of the week you used to sit in the most (so called) liberal and wealthy european country IN THE DARK!. No f'cking electric, no gas, no collection of rubbish. People dying in hospitals through no power, people topping themselves through depression, massive unmeployment, a dire trade deficit and all in all a f'cking awful country to live in. This was the UK not some deprived area in the third world. We were held (THE PEOPLE) by f'cking union arsholes. People who should have been rounded up and arrested.

So... why did Mrs Thatcher get in? Due to the extremeties of the 70's. She represented the 'good housewife' ethics that were needed then. Did she do well. Some and some. Same as the lot that are in now. Some and some.

Why is now different? To me it is different because I am a miserable git that can see no difference. My problem - no one elses. I see the UK as not being able to compete with FUTURE world problems in quite the same way as emerging countries will. Canada is an emerging country in the overall perspective of things. Mexico is, Spain is, China is etc etc etc

Perhaps only 22% voted for Labour as there is little national pride anymore. I wonder why this happened?

I could give some points to this but no doubt I will be kicked into touch by certain parties.

I read somewhere that the employment opportunities are mainly in the public sector with government money rather than in the private sector.

Again, you'll find this is riddled with errors.
Unemployment was less than 1 million in 1979, but boomed to over 3 million in 1981.
Britain also slipped substantially in the world wealth ranking between 1979 and 1981.
Also, I find it hilarious you should suggest more people 'topped themselves' during the Labour late 70's, in actual fact 1976 was declared the happiest year ever in a poll recently! I would imagine suicides are far higher nowadays than in the 70's due to higher aspirations etc.
It's complete rubbish that Thatcher fixed Britain, she ruined it. She flogged public services on the cheap, sold all our household names to foreigners and polarised the nation. What was worse, she condemned millions of people in the industrial north to the scrapheap. I remember Manchester in the early 80's with +20% unemployment, it was bloody miserable. Riots, no hope and no jobs. Yes, the 70's were cr*p economically, as they were *everywhere* in the world. The US also suffered terrible recession in the 70's as I'm sure you well know.
Thatcher was 'good' for the wealthy south east, everywhere else suffered. Why do you think the Tories are now in 4th place in Scotland and many parts of Wales?

Where did I say this? I did not say she fixed the UK. Simply that she was of her time and like todays party some of it was good and some of it was bad. It is always a mixture. Voters forget that.

Unemployment - the truth is it has not changed much then. A rollercoaster with 3-4 million people going up and down. Even under the new presentation methods the level has risen by over half million in the last 18 months. Not much flag waving on the numbers. The Torries dare not critisise as they did the same and would need to do the same. It matters little.

You need to have a section of society unemployed as I dare to say they are .... unemployable in certain economic conditions. I would guess I would/should be one of them. You advocate a complete employed workforce. If that is so and I have read this before you will have to adjust payments across the board to a much lower level as this is a massive cost factor. To pay someone £1,000 per month benefits is much cheaper than paying a governement worker £2,000 per month to the country and it will likely return very little in many areas. I hear you cry we need these workers. An economy only needs enough - not too many. Now if you take Labour as an example, the party that likes civil servants, even they admit we have far too many. But thats political speak as in fact they would and have prefered to borrow heavily to make the ecomony and unemplyment look good to get to this point. The Third Term. Now we shall see where it all ends. No different to the later days of the Tory rule. It takes time for all this to sink in.

It really depends on what you want long term. Massive debts, or a bank balance in the black which is what the Labour Party inherited.

The economy in the UK since after the war was going through the death throws of traditional manufacturing and raw material extraction. The third world has not just overnight taken over these roles. We are simpy seeing more of it and through the magnifying glass of the media. During the 60's and 70's the workforce operating in old industries were becoming expensive on a world scale and it became cheraper to import than to have our own workers in place. It is not right but that does not change jack shit. Do you see labour really doing anything about manufacturing. No - 1 million more jobs lost in this sector during the last 7 years so they fully understand the principles of world trade.

In a economic good time a tidal wave of civil servants is affordable. Sadly this area does not generate wealth or profit. It is the latter area that is of more concern than ever before. Is this the wrong tme to keep borrowing. How many people view meeting the Fiscal arrangements as a good thing. Many I guess. Meeting this means simply borrowing more and more from the world bank. Going back to the days of the country not being able to meet its commitments eventually. We are not there yet but there are a growing mainstream section of industrial and economic leaders that know the train is beggining to stop. They are not sure what station we are pulling into though.

I guess you may not have been very old or not around in the 70's.

1976..it was a nice summer and thats why people look back fondly on it. It is human nature to not recall the bad parts - and I would think thats good.

Over to you I guess.

PS. If Mrs Thatcher was so bad why is she a hero of Mr Blair's?