Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Well, then in my personal experience the UK is crime free.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

(The fact is you haven't covered my first point - they explicitly state that they don't just speak to people that are victims of crime, and you say otherwise)

I will actually pick up on your second point. Stats can be used as a tool to bend public opinion - but they are not, as many people say, lies. They measure what they measure with a fairly good accuracy. I hadn't up until now actually read about how the BSC go about collecting their data - however it seems reasonable to me, all the data is available for scrutiny and so it's actually stupid (and cynical for the sake of it) to reject everything they say because it doesn't fit in with your own view. Do you also ignore everything that stats canada says? I don't - I tend to think they are quite reliable.

Reminds me of the MMR scandal where the parents all said the vaccine was bad because something was wrong with their kids despite all the evidence to the contrary. Personal experience is great, but you can't let it obscure your view of the wider picture.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

hello, if you want to meet up sometime, when we come to halifax or if you are ever in mahone bay, as we are thinking of moving to england also, we live in nova scotia now...we can discuss things ..

I'm a Canadian possibly moving to England looking for some advice from those who have done the same except the other way round. My partner moved to Canada nearly 5 years ago with his family, we met and had a son together who is nearly 2 now. His family has gone back and he would like to follow.

I'm not "sold" on the move yet. I love it here in NS, I've never been to England and we can't afford for me to even have a visit before moving there permanently. The visa fees and container would be expensive, not to mention the flights for us and the higher housing costs there. I'm prone to seasonal depression and am terrified at the prospect of not seeing a full sunny day from Nov-May. I'll miss the wide open, unpopulated spaces. I'll miss my family. I would love to have an extended visit in the UK, but I'm afraid I won't like living there. I've dreamed of travelling to the UK all my life but when faced with a permanent move I'm balking.

Do you have any advice for me? When you moved to Canada did you have reservations? Should I just take the plunge? It seems like some of you really love it here in Canada. I sure wish my fiance felt the same way. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

If you've not visited the UK before, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much wide open, sparsely populated space the country has.

Again, i think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the weather, especially in the southern areas of the country. It isn't all doom and gloom as many weather obsessed brits will make out.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Depends where you go doesnt it;)You mean the crowded cramped bit then?

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

I grew up in the south west - not at all crowded and I remember many crisp sunny winter days.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

East Anglia is fairly good for both too.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Well the country in general has many wide open spaces. The crowded bit will generally be around the cities which is the same the world over.

At the moment i'm sitting ~5 miles from the city of London and ~5 miles from a large expanse of open spaced countryside.

Some people tend to make out that the UK has a population density over the entire land whereby people live shoulder to shoulder with no open space at all, and crime galore.

It's a shame these people must have lived blinkered through their lives in the UK.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

My sympathies :p

Same in Yorkshire

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

I lived near leeds for a bit. I liked the proximity to the dales - lots of open spaces and little villages called things like blubberhouses.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

[QUOTE=andrewporter;8482286]hello, if you want to meet up sometime, when we come to halifax or if you are ever in mahone bay, as we are thinking of moving to england also, we live in nova scotia now...we can discuss things ..

Send me a PM if you want. :)

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Thanks everyone for your informed opinions! It really did give me a lot to think about and removed some anxiety as well. I'll definitely come back and let you all know what I end up doing.

Great fun watching the debate unfold too. ;)

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Go enjoy it. You will have a blast.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

now you are just being silly.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

You expect better?

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

strange, i don't remember parents ALL saying the vaccine was bad, quite the contrary. anyway aren't you are saying you do not trust one persons experience/opinion???? you do realise you are contradicting yourself i take it. i wonder sometimes you know if you actually believe what you write. seems sometimes you take an opposing view on just about anything just for the sake of it?

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

i genuinely do actually, see above.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Firstly, I am not contradicting myself - I cited the MMR to contradict your view that relying on personal experience is the best thing to do generally - this is what you said and I disagree with you - personal experience distorts reality if you assume it applies universally (which was the point of me bringing this up in the first place)

Ok, you are confusing me because your car theft example has no meaning. as far as the BCS is concerned it doesn't matter whether the police were involved or not - so please can we ignore this aspect. For the sake of argument forget about the police for a moment.

Right, I'm not exactly sure how the BCS do their survey - but I assume they either contact directly or by post a random cross section of UK residents. These may or may not have been a victim of crime (they may or may not have reported it to the police - but we don't care about that right now). Now of those sampled a percentage are not going to want to do the survey because they don't have time, can't be arsed or whatever. Now their views are not going to get counted - but I assume that the BCS plan for this and make sure their sample size is big enough for that not to matter.

Now I'm also assuming you are arguing from a point that the BCS under reports crime rather than just has a margin of error (which is implicit in all surveys unless you ask everybody). The only way that the BCS can be under reporting constantly is for those that have been a victim of crime to be more likely not to do the survey than those that have not. I find this unlikely: i.e if they survey 10,000 people and only 9000 reply then the chances of somebody in the non-responding 1000 being a victim is probably going to be the same as one of the 9000 who did respond.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

I love that area of the UK and Derbyshire and the Peak District. I'm off to blighty on May 15 for 3 weeks. I will def take a drive out that way with my brother - we usually do. Quick pint on the snake pass off through the dales and into York for the day. I've always liked the rural areas of the north west.

I will also be in Lancaster /Morecambe (old man lives there) and will be around the lake district.

But i will also be in manchester :thumbdown:

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

When was the last time you were back? If you are in the city and it's anything like leeds it will a load of pound shops where proper shops used to be.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

york or manchester? Manchester I was last there about 2.5 years ago and york about 5 years ago or so.

manchester has never really impressed me, nor leeds for that matter. And people say vancouver lacks culture/vibrancy - everytime. I go to manchester by the time i've had a few pints, been to Gregs and the chippy, i'm done...........it takes me about an hour to get bored of wandering around the city centre.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

I was in York last weekend and still enjoy a nice wander around. Shame Petergate chippy is still closed after the fire :(

This was followed by a drive out to Castle Howard and Rievaulx Abbey.

T'was grand :thumbsup:

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

so if personal experience distorts reality?? why did you post this...."Well, then in my personal experience the UK is crime free." but anyway i have no idea what this statement is supposed to mean. if you are trying to say just because i have had a car crash i will never drive again cause i may have another one, you are lumping the whole population together as people with borderline anxiety issues.
then you go on to say ignore this bit of the argument, don't worry about that bit, i'm not sure about this bit, i assume this bit, i don't know about that bit. good grief. you either say stats are good or stats are bad its that simple. you said stats were good, now you are picking and choosing little bits here and there to make it fit. here is an idea alan why don't you for once admit you do not have the foggiest what you are talking about and just leave it there, instead of kicking the shit out of it for the sake of it like you usually do.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

I was on a plane yesterday morning heading back from the UK to Vancouver. There was a CDN girl (30ish) sitting behind me and she was slagging off London for 10 hrs. She had been there for 1 year and could not wait to get back to Vancouver. Price of gym memberships, concrete playgrounds for kids, traffic, living costs, small apartments were just a few of her dislikes.

Thank God for iPods to block out noise...

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

how was your trip? may help the o/p

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Oh come on rae, that's an incoherent rant. My comment on the UK being crime free was taking the piss. i.e. I've never experienced a crime therefore there is no crime - this is clearly bollocks and I'm surprised at you for not spotting it. You shouldn't need me to add smileys to all my sarcastic remarks.

Go through my post and read it again please. I make assumptions about the scientific methods used by the BCS because they are a professional body who's methods are externally audited. I make no assumptions about the content of the data they collect or their findings other than that they are accurate to within a margin of error.

You were the one stating that the BCS survey was invalid because not all crimes are reported to the police. I say this statement is false because the BCS survey includes crimes that have not been reported to the police. If you have other reasons why you distrust the BCS survey then I'm happy to hear them, but please make them actual verifiable reasons rather than 'you just can't trust statistics'.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

We spent a week in the Costa Del Sol visiting my parents in Malaga, and one week in SE England. Spain was great and the UK was how I remembered it...expensive, miserable unhelpful shop assistants and lots of traffic.

Nothing much had changed in my hometown except a few more shops had closed down. Shopping centres were packed full, lots of new cars on the road, all my friends had nice big TV's with the top Sky sports package but claimed they were broke :confused:

We are all very happy in Canada so the thought of moving back never crossed our minds...except for once when I looked at the fabulous exchange rate if I sold up here :thumbsup:

My advice to the OP is to experience as much of life as you possibly can, you only live once 'eh.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

yeah i noticed that too, only one friend cited money worries or difficulties, everyone else seemed fine. same for the shopping centres, not busy but ticking over. i found driving difficult with the traffic, smaller lanes and faster and actually had an accident that cost me 650 quid!!
i know what you mean about the exchange rate, i have considered moving back a few times, especially recently with that. fortunately i came to my senses, big houses alone do not a happy rae make.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

I guess a fair enough you've got a point there is too much to ask;)

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

no i didn't, all i said was...."please don't trust BCS OR any Home office crime stats", nothing about the BCS being invalid. i then went on to explain my feelings, and one reason was that i feel these surveys are not filled in by people who are victims of crime cause they cannot be bothered. further to that not all crimes are reported to the police, so if they are not reported to the cops it stands to reason that they would not be reported to other bodies either. so you can wax lyrical about + - degrees and in built margins of error but all that does is add to my argument that the whole thing is flawed and innacurate.

i don't trust stats. i can say that. just as you say you generally don't trust cops. i don't trust politicians, car salesmen, insurance agents, bankers, dr.'s and many others. all through personal experience. you can pass off the one remark as sarcastic, but you have mentioned it before and since as inconsequential.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

a point about what?

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

isn't this the Ad Hominem you were complaining of on here (BE) earlier?

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

rae, did you really think I believed that there was no crime in the UK:blink:

Not trusting statistics is silly - you might as well not trust arithmetic. You can say the data collection is flawed or what is being measured is flawed (for instance I don't trust inflation statistics because the basket of goods used doesn't reflect what people actually spend) - but a wholesale mistrust is a reactionary and cynical affectation.

(I accept that my distrust of the police is partly irrational - but I don't tend to trust people I don't know and doubly so when they are in positions of authority).

rae, I'm sorry you can't see this. It seems obvious to me - of course surveys are only accurate to within a set range, but that doesn't mean they don't tell you anything; that's throwing out the baby with the bath water.

The bit in bold is a huge assumption - and given that the BCS records crime as quite a bit higher than the police it is one that also turns out to be false.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

No, it's criticizing what you said, not you directly. I actually respect your views or I would have given up by now. The person earlier said I was a nasty idiot - a bit different I think.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Has anyone else noticed that when watching the programs like the Antique Roadshow, Cash-in the Attic etc, when people are asked what they are going to do with their money after they've sold their precious family air looms, that they all say they going to spend it on a foreign holiday. What this British obsession with holidays?

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

A chance to get away from the place for a while innit;)

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

so you agree then that stats cannot be trusted as they can be flawed. thats basically what you are saying, just in little bits, adds up to the same thing really in the end. you don't trust inflation stats, i don't trust crime stats. i can't see an issue. apart from you seem to be able to not trust certain stats and i can't. and around and around.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

mmm i think thats a fine hair split depending on how you read what was said. i'm not bothered personally, i just find it a bit rich if you cry foul elsewhere then do the same yourself. one or'tother.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

No rae, it is acceptable to not trust stats based on what they are measuring or the way the data is collected. It is not acceptible to not trust them based on your own world view.

I do not trust inflation because it does not measure the increase in the money supply which in my view is real inflation. I do trust that the number is accurately measuring what they say it is, but that the number is mis-used.

Your mistrust of the BCS data is based on your own opinion and conjecture; so far I have seen from you:-

i) They don't measure crimes not reported to the police - False.
ii) People who don't report crimes to the police can't be arsed to report them to the BCS survey - False.

I should also point out that a margin of error is not a flaw. Every measurement ever of anything has a margin of error.

Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
 

Especially the measurement of "Man Inches"