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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8479831)
Yes I know what it means, and no I was not attacking you personally, I was attacking the comments you made which if you care to read back seemed to be directed at me.
And as for the recent post... I work in an emergency department and I deal with crime, drugs, theft and mindless violence every day. My friend is a police officer in Paisley and yes I have been a victim of crime. I have had my purse stolen. house broken into as has almost all of my friends (from numerous places around the UK) my car windows have been smashed and items stolen. My husband had the windows of the car smashed as he drove along a quiet street in a small town in the UK. A neighbour of ours in the village we lived was repeatedly stabbed to death by youths whom he had asked to get out of his garden just prior to us leaving the UK. (One of the many reasons we left) You never seem to answer any of the questions I ask, therefore my next one is where did you get the information on the statistics you are talking about? And why exactly are you living in Canada? Note: the risk of becoming a victim of crime as measured by the BCS rose from 22% to 23%, but is well below its peak of 40% in 1995 Interesting that you say you work in the emergency services. The police and others in this kind of job are not usually good judges of what a typical person will experience on a day-to-day basis. By the very nature of the work they (you) do they deal with a skewed cross section of the UK population. I've answered the highlighted question somewhere previously on this thread. I note the implication of the way you've phrased that question. It's as if you think that the best reason to live somewhere is a dislike of somewhere else; I hope this is not the case. I think I can honestly say that I haven't disliked anywhere I've lived - and I've never felt unsafe even when I lived on a council estate during a riot. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by dollface
(Post 8479866)
Hopefully I won't be visiting the ER:)
I love Scotland with a passion, I just couldn't live there anymore because of that life experience, and having lots of family ties with Canada felt it was the most logical place to go. I hope you have a great time when you are there, which I am sure you will. I wish I could reverse time a little and have the Scotland I grew up in, it was much more pleasant, but for now I will be content with holidays and memories. :) |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8479876)
Crime statistics are available on the internet. Look for them here.
and I've never felt unsafe even when I lived on a council estate during a riot. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8479892)
Hmm, yes the UK is good for that. I see you haven't seen crime, drugs or the like, but a good riot or two is just great fun....I think I may have seen a few of those in my time here in Nova Scotia - NOT.
Interesting that you mentioned that you left because somebody you knew got murdered. Guess which country has the same per capita murder rate as NS? |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8479907)
Yeah - people feeling strongly enough about social deprivation and local government policy to get off their arses and do something about it. You are right, it's a bloody disgrace.
Interesting that you mentioned that you left because somebody you knew got murdered. Guess which country has the same per capita murder rate as NS? |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8479907)
Yeah - people feeling strongly enough about social deprivation and local government policy to get off their arses and do something about it. You are right, it's a bloody disgrace.
And as for your statistics, I guess you didn't read the first paragraph under the heading "How we measure statistics" Or do you know what the word statistic means? |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8479935)
Social deprivation in the UK, Which year are we talking about here? The Unemployed and unemployable get the best deal in the UK. The minimun wage is more than it is here in Canada, and the only social deprivation I'm afraid is caused by the people themselves.
And as for your statistics, I guess you didn't read the first paragraph under the heading "How we measure statistics" Or do you know what the word statistic means? Police records are one data source we use to measure crime rates. However, these statistics alone don’t paint an accurate picture because many crimes are not reported to police. Since 1982, we’ve analysed the annual British Crime Survey (BCS) in conjunction with police recorded crime figures to get a more accurate picture of UK crime, and we publish all the figures in the annual report: Crime in England and Wales. Generally speaking, the BCS is regarded as the most reliable indicator of long-term crime trends, because it asks people about their actual experiences of crime. It’s also useful for gauging public feeling since it measures how much people fear crime and how they try to avoid it. Edit: To answer your first question, it was back in the 'good old days' of 1994 |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8479935)
The Unemployed and unemployable get the best deal in the UK...the only social deprivation I'm afraid is caused by the people themselves.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8479708)
And those are the things I gave up to give my children a BETTER life.
I suggest you owe Scotland an apology. Or at least a cash donation to a Crime Prevention charity maybe. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by youngmimesofharlem
(Post 8480043)
Such a better life that you had to send your eldest son back to Scotland to get his university education on the cheap, leeching of the Scottish taxpayer as he did so?
I suggest you owe Scotland an apology. Or at least a cash donation to a Crime Prevention charity maybe. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by youngmimesofharlem
(Post 8480043)
Such a better life that you had to send your eldest son back to Scotland to get his university education on the cheap, leeching of the Scottish taxpayer as he did so?
I suggest you owe Scotland an apology. Or at least a cash donation to a Crime Prevention charity maybe. And as for everybody else out there that wants to make a sarcastic comment as to my leeching abilities, I have never been unemployed, lived and worked most of my life in the UK and have probably paid more tax than all of you put together. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480281)
Well actually he never moved to Canada in the first place, you shouldn't make such accusations, have you nothing better to do with your time???? And considering I only left a year ago and he was already in University.
And as for everybody else out there that wants to make a sarcastic comment as to my leeching abilities, I have never been unemployed, lived and worked most of my life in the UK and have probably paid more tax than all of you put together. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by lmartin999
(Post 8479951)
Oh come on. You cannot seriously believe this?
I think maybe your buddy there is talking the poll tax riots in his council estate????. That was a long time ago and I don't think many people would feel safe with a riot going on outside their window. And if it was a demonstration, why did he call it a 'RIOT'? maybe he doesn't know the meaning of that word either! |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Novocastrian
(Post 8480254)
Tee hee. I like your style young man.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480293)
The UK pays people well for being unemployed or handicapped or whatever.
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480293)
I think maybe your buddy there is talking the poll tax riots in his council estate????. That was a long time ago and I don't think many people would feel safe with a riot going on outside their window. And if it was a demonstration, why did he call it a 'RIOT'? maybe he doesn't know the meaning of that word either!
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480293)
Yes I do and have first hand experience as it was part of my job to help these people.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480293)
Yes I do and have first hand experience as it was part of my job to help these people. The UK pays people well for being unemployed or handicapped or whatever. No-one should have to go without unless they are spending it on something else (drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, gambling).
I think maybe your buddy there is talking the poll tax riots in his council estate????. That was a long time ago and I don't think many people would feel safe with a riot going on outside their window. And if it was a demonstration, why did he call it a 'RIOT'? maybe he doesn't know the meaning of that word either! You are very quick to judge people who are not as fortunate as you - and I'm still laughing at your claim to have paid more tax than us given you obviously worked for the public sector who's very job is funded through taxation. It was people like me paying YOUR wages - so think about that before telling us you contribute more than us. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8479945)
Yes, I read it - what's wrong with it? You think they should just throw out their system and just listen to you instead? it was back in the 'good old days' of 1994
And yes, back in the good old days of 1994... You do realise that is almost 20 years ago, and if you'd bothered to read what I previously said that if I could turn the clock back and live in the UK of 20 years ago... I would. Things have changed since then and I think having lived there for all of those years but 1 I have a better insight into exactly what is going wrong in that country. Move back there and then feel free to argue your point. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8479945)
Yes, I read it - what's wrong with it? You think they should just throw out their system and just listen to you instead?
Actually, I give up. It's not possible to debate with people who wilfully ignore any evidence that contradicts their own dogmatic world view. Edit: To answer your first question, it was back in the 'good old days' of 1994 |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by lmartin999
(Post 8480304)
I have no comment to make on this as sadly I think it speaks for itself.
Yes it does speak for itself, it's called the professional unemployed. I would comment on this if I had the slightest idea what you were talking about :confused::confused: |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480335)
Well actually I don't think you did read it.... it says that most crimes are not reported and are not included in these statistics.
And yes, back in the good old days of 1994... You do realise that is almost 20 years ago, and if you'd bothered to read what I previously said that if I could turn the clock back and live in the UK of 20 years ago... I would. Things have changed since then and I think having lived there for all of those years but 1 I have a better insight into exactly what is going wrong in that country. Move back there and then feel free to argue your point. Generally speaking, the BCS is regarded as the most reliable indicator of long-term crime trends, because it asks people about their actual experiences of crime. It’s also useful for gauging public feeling since it measures how much people fear crime and how they try to avoid it. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8480314)
You talking about me? I know what the difference between a riot and a demo - I know what happens when poor people are ghettoised and poor planning and policing decisions push people over the edge. I'm not giving you my life history - but that incident was used as a case study in how not to police sink estates. The area has improved significantly since then - however you probably won't believe this as it doesn't fit with your view of a crime ridden UK. (fyi: the poll tax was was repealed a few years before 1994)
You are very quick to judge people who are not as fortunate as you - and I'm still laughing at your claim to have paid more tax than us given you obviously worked for the public sector who's very job is funded through taxation. It was people like me paying YOUR wages - so think about that before telling us you contribute more than us. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480356)
Firstly you did not mention it was in 1994 that this riot took place, and now we are putting the police down, and secondly I was not paid by the public sector for most of the time I worked in the UK.
If you worked in for a company that is contracted by the government that is as good as working for the public sector. I only make this assumption based on what you've described as your occupations, based in emergency services and working with unemployed people. If this is incorrect then I apologize. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8480347)
Eh? I think you should go back and read it again. You have clearly misunderstood the point of the BCS.
i.e. it is NOT just crime recorded by the police. Statistics - I think you need to look this word up. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
"Yes it does speak for itself, it's called the professional unemployed"
Can you please edit your post to make it clear that I didn't say this. At the moment it appears that you are quoting me. Perhaps you should also talk of the 'professional handicapped'? By the way I lived in the UK until June 2009 and agree with everything Alan says. The year is irrelevant. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480356)
I was not paid by the public sector for most of the time I worked in the UK.
I'm sorry that I got here before you and corrupted Canadian culture (I have been trying, but with little success). Wish me luck. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480368)
I am not even arguing this point as it clearly states it is the views of the people who reported the crimes. How would they get the views of the victims if they didn't report it in the first place!!!! Therefore there is more crime than the actual statistics show.
Statistics - I think you need to look this word up. They ask a random sample of people (probably spread proportionately across the various demographic groups) about their experiences and perceptions of crime etc. Obviously in 1995 40% of people responded that they've experienced a crime, and last year that number was 23%. It's not bloody rocket science. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8479582)
I know there is also crime in Canada, but it is not blatantly in your face every time you are out in public, in Nova Scotia anyway.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by highlandspirit8
(Post 8480281)
I have...probably paid more tax than all of you put together.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
How to make friends and influence people :rofl:
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by rubberduckofdeath
(Post 8481410)
How to make friends and influence people :rofl:
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by lmartin999
(Post 8479741)
I am guessing this is the kind of thing you are referring to?
"Residents say unruly patrons spill out after closing time and they have complained to the city about the noise, public urination and vomiting." "when restaurants and bars close, "there's a lot of noise, issues with vandalism and people peeing and vomiting in the doorways."" |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8479706)
Your perception of crime in the UK is wrong - the statistics do not agree with you and neither do I.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by rae
(Post 8481929)
please don't trust BCS or any Home office crime stats, very bent. for example, problem with thefts from motor vehicles a few years back. how did the home office deal with, they re-categorized the offence as vehicle interference, which is a summary offence and not recorded. overnight the figures looked fantastic. job done.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by dollface
(Post 8479866)
You're not painting a pretty picture:eek: I'll see how I feel when I go back. Hopefully I won't be visiting the ER:)
if you do thats a bloody good day well done. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8481939)
Your example is about the police stats, not the BSC. Sure there are margins of error, but don't make the same mistake as hs8.
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Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
with regard to my last i don't think i explained it very well. when the questionnaires are received, if you have not reported it to the cops because of whatever reason, survey goes in the bin too. if however the cops have recorded an event at your address say, no matter what its recorded, whether you chose to fill in the survey directed to you randomly or not. and of course if you never ring the cops and don't fill in the survey know one will ever know. this happens a lot. going to someones home for the first time, then being told they had their car broken into last year in general chat, but never reported it to anyone.
be honest, how many of these survey things does anyone get and actually fill in? |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by rae
(Post 8481954)
yes it is and yes there are. BSC is good but always put down by the government for obvious reasons. the problem with BSC though is it contacts/ interviews people who declare themselves as victims of crime. If you don't report it, they don't record it. The police figures reflect persons spoken to who wish no further action and refuse to support a prosecution, this is the reason usually given for differences in figures.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/bcs-faq.pdf It is important that the survey represents everyone in the country so we need to talk to men and women of all ages and all backgrounds. In this way the results from the BCS reflect the experiences and attitudes of the whole population. We are interested in everyone’s attitudes and concerns about crime, whether or not they have been a victim of crime. Edit: The fact is, I don't have to defend the survey. I know that I trust that more than the police stats and I trust those a lot more than the experience of one person. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by rae
(Post 8481941)
you'll be fine, i went back for a week last year and it made me feel like moving back, though part of that i think was just the nostalgia and contact with friends. day to day living here is better, unless every single day you visit churches, museums, countryside, country pubs, seaside, eat fish and chips, eat curry, go clothes shopping, watch 6hrs of TV, listen to 4hrs of radio 2......
if you do thats a bloody good day well done. As for all the chavs and crime and what-nots............ I must lead a sheltered life but I have not encountered much of either - be it prior to our misguided move, or during my very frequent visits back. Whereas here in California, where I currently hang my hat, the local nightly news are full of shootings. YMMV, but no one should be put off moving (back) to the UK by fear of crime. In most countries I suspect location/location/location is everything. But you cannot beat the culture and diversity of Europe. |
Re: Advice for a Canadian moving to England?
Originally Posted by Alan2005
(Post 8481986)
It doesn't just get in touch with people who declare themselves victims of crime otherwise (as I said to hs8) "Have you been a victim of crime" would be 100%. Though I bet they do get in touch with those who've reported crimes as well as that will give them different data.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/bcs-faq.pdf Sure there is a margin of error, but I bet it's within +/- 3% like most surveys. Edit: The fact is, I don't have to defend the survey. I know that I trust that more than the police stats and I trust those a lot more than the experience of one person. experience of one person no, personal experience generally, yes. |
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