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"You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

"You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Old Jun 7th 2021, 11:28 pm
  #106  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Some interesting stat's out of the UK. Only 3 people, or 0.02% of those admitted to hospital with the Delta strain were fully vaccinated. Whilst the vaccines aren't perfect, they are definately having an effect.
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Old Jun 8th 2021, 4:09 am
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Angry Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

your so right!
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Old Jun 8th 2021, 5:11 am
  #108  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Some interesting stat's out of the UK. Only 3 people, or 0.02% of those admitted to hospital with the Delta strain were fully vaccinated. Whilst the vaccines aren't perfect, they are definately having an effect.
Of 12,383 people infected with the variant, which was first detected in India and has also been identified during the most recent outbreak in Australia, 464 sought hospital care and 126 were admitted.Of those 126, some 83 had not been vaccinated at all, 28 had received only one shot and just three had been fully vaccinated with two doses.
[SMH]

So 3 out of 126 fully vaccinated not sure about the 0.02%
It seems about half the people in the UK are fully vaccinated as well which is a good sample.
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Old Jun 8th 2021, 1:27 pm
  #109  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by themerlin View Post
Of 12,383 people infected with the variant, which was first detected in India and has also been identified during the most recent outbreak in Australia, 464 sought hospital care and 126 were admitted.Of those 126, some 83 had not been vaccinated at all, 28 had received only one shot and just three had been fully vaccinated with two doses.
[SMH]

So 3 out of 126 fully vaccinated not sure about the 0.02%
It seems about half the people in the UK are fully vaccinated as well which is a good sample.
You are right. 0.02% of cases sort hospital treatment.
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Old Jun 8th 2021, 10:38 pm
  #110  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
You are right. 0.02% of cases sort hospital treatment.
Still good news, I assume most of the over 50's are fully vaccinated now, and most of these seem to be kept out of hospital.
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Old Jun 8th 2021, 11:57 pm
  #111  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by themerlin View Post
Still good news, I assume most of the over 50's are fully vaccinated now, and most of these seem to be kept out of hospital.
Yep. early days but it is very positive news for the UK vaccines. Pfizer and AZ predominantly. It was never going to be a flick of the switch, Covid goes away, but a steady progression towards it.
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Old Jun 10th 2021, 12:19 pm
  #112  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
Would you though? Or would it be but, but, but Pfizer can cause anaphylaxis......but, but, but Pfizer can cause enlarged heart ..... but, but, but ......etc
Oh dear, this is getting rather tiresome, with Mods and ex-mods falling all over themselves, misreading my posts.

Once again, I am not an anti-vaxxer.

I just refuse to be relegated to a second-class vaccine (the AZ vaccine is demonstrably inferior to the Pfizer one in both efficacy and safety terms) on arbitrary age-based grounds, as a result the Australian government's early over-commitment to the AZ option. Particularly so, as under current Australian guidelines, once one commits to AZ as a first shot, it's the only option available for second shots, or boosters beyond.

I see the CoVID battle as a multi-year one, and I am not about to be locked in to a sub-optimal prophylactic plan for a years-long timeframe. Especially as increased Australian supply of mRNA-based alternatives is, according to Greg Hunt, federal Minister of Health, likely to make an initial jab of mRNA vaccine available to me by October or so. A little patience and short-term risk, to avail myself of a much better longterm path.

So, yes, I would take the Pfizer shot, or the upcoming (for Australia) Moderna one, the moment it becomes available to me.

Last edited by abner; Jun 10th 2021 at 12:24 pm.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 3:13 am
  #113  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Oh dear, this is getting rather tiresome, with Mods and ex-mods falling all over themselves, misreading my posts.

Once again, I am not an anti-vaxxer.

I just refuse to be relegated to a second-class vaccine (the AZ vaccine is demonstrably inferior to the Pfizer one in both efficacy and safety terms) on arbitrary age-based grounds, as a result the Australian government's early over-commitment to the AZ option. Particularly so, as under current Australian guidelines, once one commits to AZ as a first shot, it's the only option available for second shots, or boosters beyond.

I see the CoVID battle as a multi-year one, and I am not about to be locked in to a sub-optimal prophylactic plan for a years-long timeframe. Especially as increased Australian supply of mRNA-based alternatives is, according to Greg Hunt, federal Minister of Health, likely to make an initial jab of mRNA vaccine available to me by October or so. A little patience and short-term risk, to avail myself of a much better longterm path.

So, yes, I would take the Pfizer shot, or the upcoming (for Australia) Moderna one, the moment it becomes available to me.
You don't have to have AZ for ever.

By thinking just about you and your magical October date you are just putting more pressure on everyone else. It's a numbers game mate. The more people vaxxed, the more Australia will have the confidence to open up.. Get your AZ and stop thinking about you.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 8:45 am
  #114  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Oh dear, this is getting rather tiresome, with Mods and ex-mods falling all over themselves, misreading my posts.

Once again, I am not an anti-vaxxer.

I just refuse to be relegated to a second-class vaccine (the AZ vaccine is demonstrably inferior to the Pfizer one in both efficacy and safety terms) on arbitrary age-based grounds, as a result the Australian government's early over-commitment to the AZ option. Particularly so, as under current Australian guidelines, once one commits to AZ as a first shot, it's the only option available for second shots, or boosters beyond.

I see the CoVID battle as a multi-year one, and I am not about to be locked in to a sub-optimal prophylactic plan for a years-long timeframe. Especially as increased Australian supply of mRNA-based alternatives is, according to Greg Hunt, federal Minister of Health, likely to make an initial jab of mRNA vaccine available to me by October or so. A little patience and short-term risk, to avail myself of a much better longterm path.

So, yes, I would take the Pfizer shot, or the upcoming (for Australia) Moderna one, the moment it becomes available to me.
If you are old enough for the AZ vaccine, then you can currently be vaccinated, and there are Pfizer vaccines available.

Perhaps talk to your GP / vaccination clinic to see if it can be arranged sooner rather than later.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 9:17 am
  #115  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
...there are Pfizer vaccines available.
Not to me, under current Australian rules.

I'll wait until they--or Moderna ones--are.
Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
Perhaps talk to your GP...
Why do you assume that I haven't?

(Edit: if anyone else sharing my concerns on this thread has found a VIC-based doctor who can provide an immediate path for a 50+ patient to receive the Pfizer vaccine, please PM me.)

Last edited by abner; Jun 11th 2021 at 10:19 am.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 10:30 am
  #116  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
Perhaps talk to your GP...
Why do you assume that I haven't?
Sorry if that assumption was wrong - I would have hoped that your GP could have reassured you as to the safety and efficacy of AZ for the over 50's - my mistake.

As for getting Pfizer in VIC - cannot help. Perhaps see if you can register for an end of day vaccination if any exist.

I still believe that the AZ would be the way to go - but that is me. I would rather we all got vaccinated so hopefully we can open our borders, stop lockdowns, etc. All my family in the UK was vaccinated with AZ - even the ones who had Covid in the past year.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 11:00 am
  #117  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
I would have hoped that your GP could have reassured you as to the safety and efficacy of AZ...
Safety yes, to the extent that AZ safety risk was rare, and "only somewhat" worse than that of the Pfizer jab overall. (We compared notes on the TGA's most recently-reported AZ vaccine blood-clotting cases, and the fact that 7 of 8 involved patients who were well over 50.)

But efficacy, for AZ compared to Pfizer? He just didn't have an answer for that, particularly when shown the most recent data involving the "Delta" variant. (88% efficacy for two-shot Pfizer, vs 60% for two-shot AZ--this for a "variant of concern" that evolved after both vaccines were originally developed...)

Nor could he guarantee that I could switch over to Pfizer as a second shot, if I accepted AZ as a first one.

So we gave up on each other at that point.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 11:37 am
  #118  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Safety yes, to the extent that AZ safety risk was rare, and "only somewhat" worse than that of the Pfizer jab overall. (We compared notes on the TGA's most recently-reported AZ vaccine blood-clotting cases, and the fact that 7 of 8 involved patients who were well over 50.)

But efficacy, for AZ compared to Pfizer? He just didn't have an answer for that, particularly when shown the most recent data involving the "Delta" variant. (88% efficacy for two-shot Pfizer, vs 60% for two-shot AZ--this for a "variant of concern" that evolved after both vaccines were originally developed...)

Nor could he guarantee that I could switch over to Pfizer as a second shot, if I accepted AZ as a first one.

So we gave up on each other at that point.
60% is considerably more than 0% - and given that AZ is only being given to over 50's now, why would you expect blood clotting cases in the under 50's? (Actually read that some under 50's are asking for AZ so they can be vaccinated - not sure if they are being given though).

Not sure how many AZ doses have been given - the total is around 5.5 million now for all vaccinations, of which 650,000 are second doses. Assuming these are all Pfizer, that would leave around 4 million for AZ and first dose only Pfizer.
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 12:04 pm
  #119  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Some interesting data from a recent study in the UK.

The research involved 373,402 participants, and saw 1,610,562 polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests conducted between 1 December and 3 April.

The results revealed the odds of being infected after two doses of either vaccine were reduced by 70% compared to unvaccinated individuals without evidence of prior infection, with no evidence that the benefits varied between the AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...fizer-covid-va
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Old Jun 11th 2021, 1:25 pm
  #120  
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Default Re: "You vill take your AZ vaccine and you vill like it!!" Colonel Klink

Originally Posted by old.sparkles View Post
60% is considerably more than 0%
And 88% is considerably better than that.

Or, to put it the other way, with the AZ vaccine, there's a 4 in 10 chance of catching the Delta variant of Covid-19 from a significant exposure event, vs a roughly 1 in 8 chance with the Pfizer jab. I know which risk profile I'd rather have.

We can play these numbers games all day. In the end, in Australia, they come down to a personal assessment of risk, based on:
- the immediate vs future availability of one vaccine path vs another (AZ vs Pfizer, vs the likely availability of Moderna)
- personal/family proximity to hotel quarantine environments, and potential breaches of those (roughly 1 breach per 11 days, across Australia)
- personal/family proximity to community case spread, when a hotel quarantine breach is not immediately contained

Note that we're nowhere near "herd immunity" in any part of Australia, whether from vaccination or previous experience of the disease, asymptomatic or otherwise. So I'm not about to be guilted into accepting the AZ vaccine "for the sake of the herd", as if that were a goal at all close to achievement, "but for" my immediate participation.

Rather, if the herd wants me (and many like me) to join them, recognise my concerns. Offer us Pfizer / Moderna jabs instead of AZ, without age-related discrimination.

And, recognise that we're the easiest cohort of the currently unvaccinated to resolve--just give us the jab we want. Compared to the truly "hesitant", let alone the anti-vaxxers, we're 'low hanging fruit' in the overall vaccination program.

Last edited by abner; Jun 11th 2021 at 2:05 pm.
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