Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Jul 12th 2010, 12:42 am
#16
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
I've seen the same rhetoric the world over....including a massive amount in britain when I lived there...british ingenuity, humour, bulldog spirit, empire, intellect, etc etc etc ....You hear it on this forum all the time as well...
Was one of the things I learnt through travel....we are all the same and criticize each other for the same faults we possess but overlook...might be slightly more here but the nature of a large tough country would explain the need for that...
Was one of the things I learnt through travel....we are all the same and criticize each other for the same faults we possess but overlook...might be slightly more here but the nature of a large tough country would explain the need for that...
I honestly believe that some Australians are entitled to eulogise aspects of their past. You can't deprive them of it - especially when many migrants would not get within an inch of their achievements.
What gets me is that I've been out in that tough country - away from the pressures of the supermarket duopoly, and incessant discounting, and there are people out there who are really proud of their way of life and culture. Sure they might come over as cockies, some are bad-tempered, others real diamonds but some would put your average Aussie or Brit to shame. There are blokes out there who did national service in the 50s and have never left their village in Gippsland - but what the heck.
Obviously there is modern Australia too.
But they can lose that Woolies advert though!
Jul 12th 2010, 1:31 am
#17
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
What about the Australians whose ancestors achieved a lot for the UK?
I know a lot of people in the UK still like to gloat about the convict history and make out that Australians are all descended from convicts and somehow backwards because of this. The truth of the matter is that Australia didn't really grow as a nation until the free settlers came out and introduced agriculture, mining, established government, developed cities and infrastructure, created an environment of high living standards and established a free and democratic society to the new country that already existed in the UK and a lot of Europe, became involved in arts, made and helped in making important scientific discoveries, competed and became successful internationally in sport etc. etc. The nation was largely founded by highly skilled and respected English and European citizens and later on citizens from all corners of the world.
The descendants of these people are the much stereotyped and derided 'Aussies' that exist today. If you bag Australians and the nation in which they built, then in a way you are bagging yourselves and the UK because that's where it all started.
Of course Australians are proud of the fact that they, and their ancestors (most from the UK, there's that irony again), were able to create a modern and successful nation with living standards and achievements right up there with the best in the world in just 220 odd years, from scratch and in a vast and relatively harsh and rugged environment on the exact opposite side of the world with strange animals and plants and everything 'upside down'.
I know a lot of people in the UK still like to gloat about the convict history and make out that Australians are all descended from convicts and somehow backwards because of this. The truth of the matter is that Australia didn't really grow as a nation until the free settlers came out and introduced agriculture, mining, established government, developed cities and infrastructure, created an environment of high living standards and established a free and democratic society to the new country that already existed in the UK and a lot of Europe, became involved in arts, made and helped in making important scientific discoveries, competed and became successful internationally in sport etc. etc. The nation was largely founded by highly skilled and respected English and European citizens and later on citizens from all corners of the world.
The descendants of these people are the much stereotyped and derided 'Aussies' that exist today. If you bag Australians and the nation in which they built, then in a way you are bagging yourselves and the UK because that's where it all started.
Of course Australians are proud of the fact that they, and their ancestors (most from the UK, there's that irony again), were able to create a modern and successful nation with living standards and achievements right up there with the best in the world in just 220 odd years, from scratch and in a vast and relatively harsh and rugged environment on the exact opposite side of the world with strange animals and plants and everything 'upside down'.
Jul 12th 2010, 1:34 am
#18
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
What about the Australians whose ancestors achieved a lot for the UK?
I know a lot of people in the UK still like to gloat about the convict history and make out that Australians are all descended from convicts and somehow backwards because of this. The truth of the matter is that Australia didn't really grow as a nation until the free settlers came out and introduced agriculture, mining, established government, developed cities and infrastructure, created an environment of high living standards and established a free and democratic society to the new country that already existed in the UK and a lot of Europe, became involved in arts, made and helped in making important scientific discoveries, competed and became successful internationally in sport etc. etc. The nation was largely founded by highly skilled and respected English and European citizens and later on citizens from all corners of the world.
The descendants of these people are the much stereotyped and derided 'Aussies' that exist today. If you bag Australians and the nation in which they built, then in a way you are bagging yourselves and the UK because that's where it all started.
Of course Australians are proud of the fact that they, and their ancestors (most from the UK, there's that irony again), were able to create a modern and successful nation with living standards and achievements right up there with the best in the world in just 220 odd years, from scratch and in a vast and relatively harsh and rugged environment on the exact opposite side of the world with strange animals and plants and everything 'upside down'.
I know a lot of people in the UK still like to gloat about the convict history and make out that Australians are all descended from convicts and somehow backwards because of this. The truth of the matter is that Australia didn't really grow as a nation until the free settlers came out and introduced agriculture, mining, established government, developed cities and infrastructure, created an environment of high living standards and established a free and democratic society to the new country that already existed in the UK and a lot of Europe, became involved in arts, made and helped in making important scientific discoveries, competed and became successful internationally in sport etc. etc. The nation was largely founded by highly skilled and respected English and European citizens and later on citizens from all corners of the world.
The descendants of these people are the much stereotyped and derided 'Aussies' that exist today. If you bag Australians and the nation in which they built, then in a way you are bagging yourselves and the UK because that's where it all started.
Of course Australians are proud of the fact that they, and their ancestors (most from the UK, there's that irony again), were able to create a modern and successful nation with living standards and achievements right up there with the best in the world in just 220 odd years, from scratch and in a vast and relatively harsh and rugged environment on the exact opposite side of the world with strange animals and plants and everything 'upside down'.
Jul 12th 2010, 1:48 am
#19
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Well, I am Australian and don't want to spend too much time posting on these forums as I feel like I'm intruding a bit, 
.
But after stumbling on here and lurking a bit, purely out of curiosity at first, I have found it a bit alarming that a significant number of people who have moved out here from the UK, many of who are probably related in some way to a current Australian (but don't know it), have developed such hostile and condescending views towards Australia and Australians.
I know it's not all of them and probably nowhere near a majority even but I always thought that of all countries (except NZ maybe) UK was one of the closest to Australia and would feel at home here more than most.
Is Australian culture really all that different to British culture? A lot of you say it is but this actually surprises me a little. Sure the geography is very different and aspects of the climate in many places is very different but the actual culture in terms of the way we all live and the beliefs we have?
. But after stumbling on here and lurking a bit, purely out of curiosity at first, I have found it a bit alarming that a significant number of people who have moved out here from the UK, many of who are probably related in some way to a current Australian (but don't know it), have developed such hostile and condescending views towards Australia and Australians.
I know it's not all of them and probably nowhere near a majority even but I always thought that of all countries (except NZ maybe) UK was one of the closest to Australia and would feel at home here more than most.
Is Australian culture really all that different to British culture? A lot of you say it is but this actually surprises me a little. Sure the geography is very different and aspects of the climate in many places is very different but the actual culture in terms of the way we all live and the beliefs we have?
Jul 12th 2010, 2:00 am
#20
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Well, I am Australian and don't want to spend too much time posting on these forums as I feel like I'm intruding a bit, .
But after stumbling on here and lurking a bit, purely out of curiosity at first, I have found it a bit alarming that a significant number of people who have moved out here from the UK, many of who are probably related in some way to a current Australian (but don't know it), have developed such hostile and condescending views towards Australia and Australians.
I know it's not all of them and probably nowhere near a majority even but I always thought that of all countries (except NZ maybe) UK was one of the closest to Australia and would feel at home here more than most.
Is Australian culture really all that different to British culture? A lot of you say it is but this actually surprises me a little. Sure the geography is very different and aspects of the climate in many places is very different but the actual culture in terms of the way we all live and the beliefs we have?
. But after stumbling on here and lurking a bit, purely out of curiosity at first, I have found it a bit alarming that a significant number of people who have moved out here from the UK, many of who are probably related in some way to a current Australian (but don't know it), have developed such hostile and condescending views towards Australia and Australians.
I know it's not all of them and probably nowhere near a majority even but I always thought that of all countries (except NZ maybe) UK was one of the closest to Australia and would feel at home here more than most.
Is Australian culture really all that different to British culture? A lot of you say it is but this actually surprises me a little. Sure the geography is very different and aspects of the climate in many places is very different but the actual culture in terms of the way we all live and the beliefs we have?
Keel
Jul 12th 2010, 2:04 am
#21
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Location: Miles from anywhere, Victoria, Australia.
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Some FACTS.
After escaping the horrors of Gallipoli the Anzac troops were redeployed to France to fight the Germans. The only units not sent to the Western Front were the light horse which remained in the Middle East. By July 1916 there were more than 90,000 Australians on the Western Front, another 90,000 training in England while about 25,000 remained in the Middle East.
25th June 1916 - First Australian Victoria Cross on the Western Front. Captain K. Heritage leads 8 officers and 73 others, all volunteers from the 5th
Brigade to harass enemy positions at Bois Grenier, near Armentières. Awards: Private John William Alexander Jackson, 17th Battalion, 5th Brigade,
2nd Division - Victoria Cross.
19th July 1916 - Battle of Fleurbaix commences near Fromelles. The battle at Fromelles was the only battle in which the AIF fought in the Western Front that failed to produce a positive result.
20th July 1916 - Battle of Fleurbaix ceases. Losses:
Australian: 5,533 killed or wounded - 400 prisoners.
British: 1,547 killed or wounded.
Germans: 1,500 killed or wounded.
In the 4 years of War approximately 416,809 Australians had joined up and of these 313,814 had embarked for duty overseas. 65% of these were killed or wounded compared to 51% for Britain, 50% for Canada and 59% for New Zealand. Nearly 40% of all Australian males aged 18 - 44 voluntarily enlisted. One in five, or 63,163 died on active service during the war.
Of the 313,814 who embarked from Australia, approximately 295,000 served on the Western Font. 53,000 died in France and Belgium, 18,000 have no known grave, 152,171 were wounded.
Between 27th March and 5th October 1918, the AIF made up less than 10% of combined forces but captured 23% of the prisoners, 23.5% of the enemy guns and 21.5% of the ground taken from the Germans.
The Australians were awarded 52 Victoria Crosses on the Western Front Campain.
Forgot to memtion: My wife is the secretary of the RSL sub branch and I am an affiliate member. It is not a licensed sub branch and acts more as a welfare support for vets.
We buried one of our members recently. He was an English fighter pilot from WWII awarded the DFC. He came to live in Australia many years ago.
Wifey and I are members of the honor guard for service member burials. I did one a couple of years ago. It was 40c all day and we stood with the flag for an hour and I was proud to do so.
And to the last poster, An Austrlain, good on you. Bout time someone said it.
Jul 12th 2010, 2:16 am
#22
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Dunkirque?
The Desert Rats?
2 PARA in the Falklands
Just about every British schoolboy learns that even though Tommy had itchy baggy uniforms and every Yank was trapping every girl in sight with nylon stockings that the bowler helmeted squaddie was the best in the world...
Every British schoolboy learns that his country had one of the largest Empires ever seen and is (at least at the time for some) very proud of it. And they've every reason to be proud.
Many a British schoolboy finds a tribal identity in his soccer team - and then as an adult, goes on to spend the entire game abusing players on the field in a way absolutely exclusive and beyond the bounds of good taste.
But Australians who try to enunciate, to wax lyrical about some tiny meaning in some aspect of their history or culture are not allowed to self-indulge.
You know what - it's just a bit of poetry and feeling at times, perhaps from a group of old teary-eyed boys... That's all, really! You think the supermarket monthly basket of goods are expensive, well how would it feel to carry the thing across East Falkland?
I really don't think that some of these people would think that compassion doesn't exist elsewhere. There was a programme about Australian soldiers in the Stan last week and I saw some soldiers who are nothing but a credit to their unit, mixing in with other cultures. And that's increasingly the way Australian and UK soldiers have operated - if I may be so bold - it's a thing that commanders consider that commonwealth soldiers do well. It started out - was well documented in Borneo, was practised in N Ireland and continued in Iraq and the Stan.
May UK and Australian troops carry out and further a long tradition - even if the relationship bourne of the First World War could have destroyed it- but that's another story eulogised and debated in itself.
Let them have their moment I say! Whether it's Cyclone Tracey, or the rural tradition or a bunch of blokes in a men's shed.
The Desert Rats?
2 PARA in the Falklands
Just about every British schoolboy learns that even though Tommy had itchy baggy uniforms and every Yank was trapping every girl in sight with nylon stockings that the bowler helmeted squaddie was the best in the world...
Every British schoolboy learns that his country had one of the largest Empires ever seen and is (at least at the time for some) very proud of it. And they've every reason to be proud.
Many a British schoolboy finds a tribal identity in his soccer team - and then as an adult, goes on to spend the entire game abusing players on the field in a way absolutely exclusive and beyond the bounds of good taste.
But Australians who try to enunciate, to wax lyrical about some tiny meaning in some aspect of their history or culture are not allowed to self-indulge.
You know what - it's just a bit of poetry and feeling at times, perhaps from a group of old teary-eyed boys... That's all, really! You think the supermarket monthly basket of goods are expensive, well how would it feel to carry the thing across East Falkland?
I really don't think that some of these people would think that compassion doesn't exist elsewhere. There was a programme about Australian soldiers in the Stan last week and I saw some soldiers who are nothing but a credit to their unit, mixing in with other cultures. And that's increasingly the way Australian and UK soldiers have operated - if I may be so bold - it's a thing that commanders consider that commonwealth soldiers do well. It started out - was well documented in Borneo, was practised in N Ireland and continued in Iraq and the Stan.
May UK and Australian troops carry out and further a long tradition - even if the relationship bourne of the First World War could have destroyed it- but that's another story eulogised and debated in itself.
Let them have their moment I say! Whether it's Cyclone Tracey, or the rural tradition or a bunch of blokes in a men's shed.
That's my rant
But can you see what I'm getting at. It seems to be "Un Australian" not to say these sayings.In my experience the Ozzy soldiers and the Brit Soldiers are no different. Same breakfast, big fryup, it makes the man.
Mind you could never work out getting dehydrated rat packs in the Pilbara
Keel
Jul 12th 2010, 2:23 am
#23
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Sorry Badge but this "it's un Australian, fair go, doing it tough, battlers" etc really gets to me. I love Australia but really cringe when I hear these lines everyday. Perhaps it's because mostly it's politicians using it so when you do hear from a genuine Ozzy I'm sceptical. I've had it up to my eye teeth of hearing about what the labour polies say about what their doing for "working families".
That's my rant But can you see what I'm getting at. It seems to be "Un Australian" not to say these sayings.
In my experience the Ozzy soldiers and the Brit Soldiers are no different. Same breakfast, big fryup, it makes the man.
Mind you could never work out getting dehydrated rat packs in the Pilbara
Keel
That's my rant
But can you see what I'm getting at. It seems to be "Un Australian" not to say these sayings.In my experience the Ozzy soldiers and the Brit Soldiers are no different. Same breakfast, big fryup, it makes the man.
Mind you could never work out getting dehydrated rat packs in the Pilbara
Keel
Rant over (for now!)
Jul 12th 2010, 2:45 am
#24
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Hear hear. I'm full of respect for Aussie soldiers - but also for all the other nationalities,. Its the "it's un Australian, fair go, doing it tough, battler" thing that gets to me too. Plus I also feel the politicaians are trying to make those of us who are not "working families" feel inadequate. I choose to be single, I choose to have no kids. I was never made to feel like I was second-class because of it when I was back home. But here there is a real expectation that you will get married and you will have a family and your life will revolve around them. People here are so patronising about single people - "oh, poor you, all alone". Drives me nuts. Its my choice and it doesn't make me any less worthy just cos I'm not a "working family".
Rant over (for now!)
Rant over (for now!)
I think it's the lies that labour have fed us the last 3 years that have made me bitter. Honest
Aye your right though "Bloody ozzies" what do they know about us single girls eh.
Keel
Jul 12th 2010, 2:50 am
#25
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Sorry Pollyana my post last week about about Gillard being a dyke for all of the above reasons (I'm looking down at my feet. embarrased, ). I obviuosly did not mean you
I think it's the lies that labour have fed us the last 3 years that have made me bitter. Honest
Aye your right though "Bloody ozzies" what do they know about us single girls eh.
Keel
I think it's the lies that labour have fed us the last 3 years that have made me bitter. Honest
Aye your right though "Bloody ozzies" what do they know about us single girls eh.
Keel
Last week was a long time ago!Tis so true though, just cos any of us aren't part of a "working family" it shouldn't make us any less part of the community
Jul 12th 2010, 2:58 am
#26
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
keel
Jul 12th 2010, 3:08 am
#27
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Jul 12th 2010, 3:12 am
#28
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Hear hear. I'm full of respect for Aussie soldiers - but also for all the other nationalities,. Its the "it's un Australian, fair go, doing it tough, battler" thing that gets to me too. Plus I also feel the politicaians are trying to make those of us who are not "working families" feel inadequate. I choose to be single, I choose to have no kids. I was never made to feel like I was second-class because of it when I was back home. But here there is a real expectation that you will get married and you will have a family and your life will revolve around them. People here are so patronising about single people - "oh, poor you, all alone". Drives me nuts. Its my choice and it doesn't make me any less worthy just cos I'm not a "working family".
Rant over (for now!)
Rant over (for now!)
I neglect my kids everytime I come on here and I've only about 500 posts.:
Keel
Jul 12th 2010, 3:17 am
#29
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
So does being a Mod, one day I will count how many hundreds of posts I have made in Immigration lately consisting just of the words "threads merged"
Jul 12th 2010, 6:14 am
#30
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Re: Unique Australian Mateship thingo ????
Can I just say the exact same thing, albeit in different words, is said over here in the UK, I think it's just a sense of pride and sadness the collective feels when such a tragic event occurs. I don't think anyone who said it would be hoping for the outcome to exclude anyone else, it's just a expression. Saying that, I used to get mightily annoyed when the Yanks would talk about Vietnam and never mention the Kiwis and Aussies (etc) who were fighting there . .
Last edited by Still Game; Jul 12th 2010 at 6:16 am.
