Is this for real?
#121
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The court case at the centre of this started in Cairns today and is expected to last for 2 days.
The local news is not exactly hot on facts but from what we are told so far....
The lad's sister in Ukraine sent him pills which they used to terminate the pregnancy.
Therefore both are on trial. Him as supplier and her as user.
Can't see any result other than negative for them as a judge makes his ruling on law and that says a crime has been committed.
The law (I understand) is non surgical abortion is illegal.
The local news is not exactly hot on facts but from what we are told so far....
The lad's sister in Ukraine sent him pills which they used to terminate the pregnancy.
Therefore both are on trial. Him as supplier and her as user.
Can't see any result other than negative for them as a judge makes his ruling on law and that says a crime has been committed.
The law (I understand) is non surgical abortion is illegal.
I think that it is ridiculous that it is illegal in any country or state but that is just my opinion!!!!
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#122
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I know we are all entitled to our own opinion but I am shocked that anyone would think that the rights of an unborn child should supercede that of the mother.
Sometimes contraception does fail, sometimes people are careless - whatever the reason, the effects of forcing someone to carry a child against their will could be devastating.
I might not agree with abortion being used as contraception but at what point does the doctor take over the womans body and her choice, and what would happen if the woman forced to go through this, decided not to look after herself, not to eat properly, drank copious amounts of alcohol or even smoked in pregnancy, what happens then?
Someone who would desperately love to carry their own child and managed to get pregnant would probably (or one would hope) not take stupid risks with her body and health and inflict her bad habits on her child and treat her body as well as she would treat the baby once it is born.
But in the event of forced child bearing, - who would enforce the health of the unborn child then?
Sometimes contraception does fail, sometimes people are careless - whatever the reason, the effects of forcing someone to carry a child against their will could be devastating.
I might not agree with abortion being used as contraception but at what point does the doctor take over the womans body and her choice, and what would happen if the woman forced to go through this, decided not to look after herself, not to eat properly, drank copious amounts of alcohol or even smoked in pregnancy, what happens then?
Someone who would desperately love to carry their own child and managed to get pregnant would probably (or one would hope) not take stupid risks with her body and health and inflict her bad habits on her child and treat her body as well as she would treat the baby once it is born.
But in the event of forced child bearing, - who would enforce the health of the unborn child then?
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#123
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There's so many variables in this that it's easy to appear ambiguous and/or contradictory. For some the shock of discovering that they're pregnant can trigger irrational, spontaneous and ill-thought out decisions. It's counter productive if a person is forced to see the pregnancy through full term and along the way self-harms, takes it out on the new born or raises the child neglectfully.
Regardless of the law the bottom line is it's the mother who has last say but one would hope that her decision is based at least as much on the unborn child's welfare as her own. Counselling will help her to arrive at the right decision. My own preference would be to see a reluctant mother turn a negative into a positive by transforming their "accident" into a gift of life firstly to the unborn child and then to a childless couple desperate to adopt.
Regardless of the law the bottom line is it's the mother who has last say but one would hope that her decision is based at least as much on the unborn child's welfare as her own. Counselling will help her to arrive at the right decision. My own preference would be to see a reluctant mother turn a negative into a positive by transforming their "accident" into a gift of life firstly to the unborn child and then to a childless couple desperate to adopt.
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#124
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There's so many variables in this that it's easy to appear ambiguous and/or contradictory. For some the shock of discovering that they're pregnant can trigger irrational, spontaneous and ill-thought out decisions. It's counter productive if a person is forced to see the pregnancy through full term and along the way self-harms, takes it out on the new born or raises the child neglectfully.
Regardless of the law the bottom line is it's the mother who has last say but one would hope that her decision is based at least as much on the unborn child's welfare as her own. Counselling will help her to arrive at the right decision. My own preference would be to see a reluctant mother turn a negative into a positive by transforming their "accident" into a gift of life firstly to the unborn child and then to a childless couple desperate to adopt.
Regardless of the law the bottom line is it's the mother who has last say but one would hope that her decision is based at least as much on the unborn child's welfare as her own. Counselling will help her to arrive at the right decision. My own preference would be to see a reluctant mother turn a negative into a positive by transforming their "accident" into a gift of life firstly to the unborn child and then to a childless couple desperate to adopt.
You must be right?
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#125
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I'm pro-choice, I've known several woman that have had abortions, none of them were for rape or life-threatening conditions - they just realized that they were not prepared for having a child.
Two were too young, typical mistakes with contraception and both were not old enough or established enough to become parents (they would doubtless have ended up being lambasted as single mothers in council accommodation).
One was in her late 20's, contraception mistake, but her partner was not a good one and she was not well established enough (financially, support network, etc).
One was in her mid 30's, married with 2 kids already, just decided that 2 was all they could manage.
I think it all depends upon whether you think "life" starts at conception or at a later stage. I suspect that, like many social issues, ones religious background will impact ones opinion.
Two were too young, typical mistakes with contraception and both were not old enough or established enough to become parents (they would doubtless have ended up being lambasted as single mothers in council accommodation).
One was in her late 20's, contraception mistake, but her partner was not a good one and she was not well established enough (financially, support network, etc).
One was in her mid 30's, married with 2 kids already, just decided that 2 was all they could manage.
I think it all depends upon whether you think "life" starts at conception or at a later stage. I suspect that, like many social issues, ones religious background will impact ones opinion.
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#126
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Like some posters here I too know women who have had an abortion and in one case the woman who took that decision is still haunted by it - nearly 30 years after having it done. Someone close to me has counselled dozens of women considering abortion and the success rate (decision to keep/adopt out) is very high.
Yes there is often an emotional overhead to adopting out but life itself has emotional overheads too. A good BE case to refer to is the one experienced by a poster who is no longer posting on BE these days: Livinginreality. I take my hat off to that woman for her selfless approach and unflinching love for the child that she adopted out. Her particular story had a warm and happy ending. She spoke about it a lot in her later posts. Maybe you will want to go and have a good read of her personal experience?
Regardless of the law the bottom line is it's the mother who has last say but one would hope that her decision is based at least as much on the unborn child's welfare as her own. Counselling will help her to arrive at the right decision. My own preference would be to see a reluctant mother turn a negative into a positive by transforming their "accident" into a gift of life firstly to the unborn child and then to a childless couple desperate to adopt.
Just because they want to, people do not have the right to become parents by taking on someone else's child and taking an anti-abortion stance to achieve that goal. Some aspects of adoption equate to commodity trading, only it's not wheat, rice or gold, it's a child. As I said before, there is a tendency to see adoption from the viewpoint of the adults only - but what is best for the child?
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#127
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Nope, religion has no influence in my opinions
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Just because they want to, people do not have the right to become parents by taking on someone else's child and taking an anti-abortion stance to achieve that goal. Some aspects of adoption equate to commodity trading, only it's not wheat, rice or gold, it's a child. As I said before, there is a tendency to see adoption from the viewpoint of the adults only - but what is best for the child?
Over the years I've known lots and lots of people who have been adopted. The vast majority are as happy and well adjusted as anyone else. It would be interesting to hear from BE posters who are adopted. Do they think it would have served their interests better if they'd never existed? However, it is a child's right to know from an early age that they were adopted but not necessarily to know the identity of their natural parents. My wife and I know a couple who adopted their 20 year old daughter as a baby and they've never told her that she's adopted.
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#128
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Thank god the jury saw sense on this one, they have been found not guilty abortion although yes on the odd occasion is used as contraception for most woman, and some men!! it is never and easy option,
I think that it is ridiculous that it is illegal in any country or state but that is just my opinion!!!!
I think that it is ridiculous that it is illegal in any country or state but that is just my opinion!!!!
Be interesting to read the full story behind this one as from what we have read so far they clearly broke the criminal law.
That being the case I expected the judge to instruct the jury to deliver a guilty verdict.
Whether that law is a century old or not is irrelevant, and even though many consider it unfit for contemporary times it is statute.Therefore shouldn't that law now be reviewed? Good old Anna Bligh says there are no plans to amend it so where does that leave things now?
I think the biggest "injustice" was that this couple was singled out after all these years.
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#129
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Must admit I'm surprised.
Be interesting to read the full story behind this one as from what we have read so far they clearly broke the criminal law.
That being the case I expected the judge to instruct the jury to deliver a guilty verdict.
Whether that law is a century old or not is irrelevant, and even though many consider it unfit for contemporary times it is statute.Therefore shouldn't that law now be reviewed? Good old Anna Bligh says there are no plans to amend it so where does that leave things now?
I think the biggest "injustice" was that this couple was singled out after all these years.
Be interesting to read the full story behind this one as from what we have read so far they clearly broke the criminal law.
That being the case I expected the judge to instruct the jury to deliver a guilty verdict.
Whether that law is a century old or not is irrelevant, and even though many consider it unfit for contemporary times it is statute.Therefore shouldn't that law now be reviewed? Good old Anna Bligh says there are no plans to amend it so where does that leave things now?
I think the biggest "injustice" was that this couple was singled out after all these years.
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#130
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Must admit I'm surprised.
Be interesting to read the full story behind this one as from what we have read so far they clearly broke the criminal law.
That being the case I expected the judge to instruct the jury to deliver a guilty verdict.
Whether that law is a century old or not is irrelevant, and even though many consider it unfit for contemporary times it is statute.Therefore shouldn't that law now be reviewed? Good old Anna Bligh says there are no plans to amend it so where does that leave things now?
I think the biggest "injustice" was that this couple was singled out after all these years.
Be interesting to read the full story behind this one as from what we have read so far they clearly broke the criminal law.
That being the case I expected the judge to instruct the jury to deliver a guilty verdict.
Whether that law is a century old or not is irrelevant, and even though many consider it unfit for contemporary times it is statute.Therefore shouldn't that law now be reviewed? Good old Anna Bligh says there are no plans to amend it so where does that leave things now?
I think the biggest "injustice" was that this couple was singled out after all these years.
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#131
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I do wonder about the objectiveness of some of these counselling services.
You appear to be simplifying the emotional cost of adoption by saying that there are ups and downs in life anyway. Unfortunately, adding adoption on top of the normal ups and downs of life can be a very heavy burden.
You are assuming that a pregnant woman is considering the unborn child's welfare only if she continues the pregnancy - but she might well be considering the unborn child's welfare by terminating the pregnancy.
Just because they want to, people do not have the right to become parents by taking on someone else's child and taking an anti-abortion stance to achieve that goal. Some aspects of adoption equate to commodity trading, only it's not wheat, rice or gold, it's a child. As I said before, there is a tendency to see adoption from the viewpoint of the adults only - but what is best for the child?
You appear to be simplifying the emotional cost of adoption by saying that there are ups and downs in life anyway. Unfortunately, adding adoption on top of the normal ups and downs of life can be a very heavy burden.
You are assuming that a pregnant woman is considering the unborn child's welfare only if she continues the pregnancy - but she might well be considering the unborn child's welfare by terminating the pregnancy.
Just because they want to, people do not have the right to become parents by taking on someone else's child and taking an anti-abortion stance to achieve that goal. Some aspects of adoption equate to commodity trading, only it's not wheat, rice or gold, it's a child. As I said before, there is a tendency to see adoption from the viewpoint of the adults only - but what is best for the child?
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