View Poll Results: Is the NBN a good idea?
Yes, the faster the better
19
45.24%
No, don't need it
12
28.57%
Don't care, as long as I don't have to pay for it
11
26.19%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll
Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Aug 23rd 2010, 9:27 pm
#77
In melbourne
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 263
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Business does pay for it and only those that use it. The $42bn is in effect an at risk loan to setup a new company to provide services. The government will eventually float the company, seeing return on investment "if" the NBN is a good bet. The longterm funding is provided by users. The if is the big part.
Historically governments have made good money from creating telco's and then floating them.
Aug 23rd 2010, 10:46 pm
#78
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Posts: 8,460
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Business does pay for it and only those that use it. The $42bn is in effect an at risk loan to setup a new company to provide services. The government will eventually float the company, seeing return on investment "if" the NBN is a good bet. The longterm funding is provided by users. The if is the big part.
Historically governments have made good money from creating telco's and then floating them.
Historically governments have made good money from creating telco's and then floating them.
Aug 23rd 2010, 11:06 pm
#79
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Business does pay for it and only those that use it. The $42bn is in effect an at risk loan to setup a new company to provide services. The government will eventually float the company, seeing return on investment "if" the NBN is a good bet. The longterm funding is provided by users. The if is the big part.
Historically governments have made good money from creating telco's and then floating them.
Historically governments have made good money from creating telco's and then floating them.
Now we are going to pay $43 billion to create another telecom company, which will then be sold off, and taddaahhh!!! another $43 billion in the government coffers.
It's a secret tax
JTL
Aug 23rd 2010, 11:13 pm
#80
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,316
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Yeah its the 'if' part that bugs me. Believe it or not, we , the public used to own Telstra.
Now we are going to pay $43 billion to create another telecom company, which will then be sold off, and taddaahhh!!! another $43 billion in the government coffers.
It's a secret tax
JTL
Now we are going to pay $43 billion to create another telecom company, which will then be sold off, and taddaahhh!!! another $43 billion in the government coffers.
It's a secret tax
JTL
Next you'll be telling me that super is a secret plan for people to fund their own retirement.
Aug 23rd 2010, 11:24 pm
#81
In melbourne
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 263
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Yeah its the 'if' part that bugs me. Believe it or not, we , the public used to own Telstra.
Now we are going to pay $43 billion to create another telecom company, which will then be sold off, and taddaahhh!!! another $43 billion in the government coffers.
It's a secret tax
JTL
Now we are going to pay $43 billion to create another telecom company, which will then be sold off, and taddaahhh!!! another $43 billion in the government coffers.
It's a secret tax
JTL
The government sold off Telstra and made good money on it... Thats effectively a tax on investors to pay tax payers you mean...This is a money go round really, the tax payer only really pays if they use it (on an individual level) or the government makes a really really bad bet (then loses scale and not to the full amount) or gets market regulation completely wrong both are unlikely circumstances.
Also in terms of the economics of rural broadband this is already subsidized today under the broadband g'tee scheme. The regulator has to be cautious however about pricing structures/competition and cherry picking of city based customers vs. rural. This though is something that has been an issue since the creation of the post office and its universal service provision commitments.
Aug 24th 2010, 12:05 am
#82
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
No we're not. It's $26 billion.
Sounds like it just paid for itself. Surely that's a good thing?
How can it be a secret tax if the figures have already been released to the public, and under your own hypothetical, the NBN pays for itself?
another $43 billion in the government coffers.
It's a secret tax
Aug 24th 2010, 1:30 am
#83
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
WE will have to pay for it, and then pay to use it. It does not pay for itself.
Let me explain again. The government will tax us all $43 billion to pay for this NBN. Then once the scheme is off the ground, it will sell it back to us via a share offer. I wouldn't like to guess the price to the public, but oh who knows, maybe $43 billion.
Net profit to the government $43 billion.
Secret tax? Yes.
JTL
Aug 24th 2010, 1:56 am
#84
In melbourne
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 263
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
WE will have to pay for it, and then pay to use it. It does not pay for itself.
Let me explain again. The government will tax us all $43 billion to pay for this NBN. Then once the scheme is off the ground, it will sell it back to us via a share offer. I wouldn't like to guess the price to the public, but oh who knows, maybe $43 billion.
Net profit to the government $43 billion.
Secret tax? Yes.
JTL
Let me explain again. The government will tax us all $43 billion to pay for this NBN. Then once the scheme is off the ground, it will sell it back to us via a share offer. I wouldn't like to guess the price to the public, but oh who knows, maybe $43 billion.
Net profit to the government $43 billion.
Secret tax? Yes.
JTL
If you decide to purchase shares in NBN co. then you are paying for direct holding of the company (this is your choice either directly or through super) rather than public holding. If the company remains publicly held the government benefits from operational profits (or losses) if it is sold and becomes privately held shareholders gain profits (or losses) . This is how privatization works..
The point about the government making $43bn is bit contradictory, but the government is a public body $43bn in government coffers is a benefit to the people of the country.
Aug 24th 2010, 2:09 am
#85
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
We have already paid for it twice. We paid to build it, and then we pay to buy it back into a private ownership. So $43 billion becomes $86 billion. And that's before the overspend which will turn it into $120 billion.
For faster broadband, yaaayyyy
.... give me a break
JTL
Aug 24th 2010, 5:30 am
#86
In melbourne
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 263
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
We have already paid for it twice. We paid to build it, and then we pay to buy it back into a private ownership. So $43 billion becomes $86 billion. And that's before the overspend which will turn it into $120 billion.
For faster broadband, yaaayyyy.... give me a break
JTL
For faster broadband, yaaayyyy
.... give me a breakJTL
I think you need to look a bit more into government economics... thats not how things work unless you listen to people trying to make sound bites or read tabloid reporting...
Aug 24th 2010, 8:39 am
#87
I'm Old Gregg!
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: A Former Bogan Colony in QLD
Posts: 8,460
Aug 24th 2010, 10:50 am
#88
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Is the NBN a good idea or mental?
Lets go to basic maths.
Government borrows to build it. Private pays to use it and eventually pays to buy it.
Current figures around see a $10 billion deficit to the taxpayer however for the true pay off you need to look at the increases in productivity. This may bring a taxpayer pay off.
All figures seem to be rubbery but you need to remember to subtract the sale price and not add it.
We already pay for broadband, telephony and some for cable TV so you cannot add that into the costs for consumers. There are also new housing estates already putting in fibre to the home.
There is a demand both for consumers and business. I would like to see authoritative economics that get their plus and minus signs in the right place.
BTW My maths is not great either. I saw mentions of porn and donkeys and my mind put them together. Probably says more about me.
Government borrows to build it. Private pays to use it and eventually pays to buy it.
Current figures around see a $10 billion deficit to the taxpayer however for the true pay off you need to look at the increases in productivity. This may bring a taxpayer pay off.
All figures seem to be rubbery but you need to remember to subtract the sale price and not add it.
We already pay for broadband, telephony and some for cable TV so you cannot add that into the costs for consumers. There are also new housing estates already putting in fibre to the home.
There is a demand both for consumers and business. I would like to see authoritative economics that get their plus and minus signs in the right place.
We have already paid for it twice. We paid to build it, and then we pay to buy it back into a private ownership. So $43 billion becomes $86 billion. And that's before the overspend which will turn it into $120 billion.
For faster broadband, yaaayyyy.... give me a break
JTL
For faster broadband, yaaayyyy
.... give me a breakJTL
Last edited by IvanM; Aug 24th 2010 at 11:53 am.
Aug 24th 2010, 11:14 am
#89
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2004
Location: Birkdale QLD
Posts: 7,642
How did you know deduce from my husband's posts though?
