Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Dec 4th 2011, 4:34 am
#31
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Does Becks in those undies do it for you?
I'd rather be a hip, liberated, stylish gun slinging metrosexual. If someone coins a term less stuffy and old hat than marriage then I'll be envious. Calling it something else just reiterates outdated homophobia and prejudice. So, on that basis there's a good chance the Aussies will label it 'queer union' or 'bender partnerships'
Dec 4th 2011, 4:54 am
#32
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 5,461
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
I think something that would sway the masses in Australia is to let them in on the secret that gay parents are seen as single parents. Therefore someone can stay home on the single parents benefit while their live in partner earns a couple of hundred grand a year. Don't know if this is still the case, but I know it was a few years ago when I spoke to friends in that situation.
Dec 4th 2011, 5:10 am
#33
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Northumberland to Maida Vale Perth
Posts: 972
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
I'd rather be a hip, liberated, stylish gun slinging metrosexual. If someone coins a term less stuffy and old hat than marriage then I'll be envious. Calling it something else just reiterates outdated homophobia and prejudice. So, on that basis there's a good chance the Aussies will label it 'queer union' or 'bender partnerships'
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Dec 4th 2011, 5:23 am
#34
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
I could live with that, but never marriage.
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Dec 4th 2011, 5:29 am
#35
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,735
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Sadly not. Here you get ALP caucus making a decision, stacked branch meetings making a decision, union powerbrokers making a decision, and the party enforcing it under threat of expulsion. That's how half the crap that the people don't want gets forced upon them....
A conscience vote simply removes those shackles and then the politician votes how they personally feel...
What SHOULD happen is the politician should represent the majority feeling of his/her electorate on each issue. It very rarely happens.
A conscience vote simply removes those shackles and then the politician votes how they personally feel...
What SHOULD happen is the politician should represent the majority feeling of his/her electorate on each issue. It very rarely happens.
A conscience vote means the caucus vote is irrelevant. The libs have their own stacking issues and there is a big battle in NSW between right and left. The libs are more disciplined in toeing the party line giving the impression of unity.
With a constituency system there will always be a dilemma between the national and local needs. The more marginal the seat the more local needs take priority.
It will be interesting to see how much voting power gets handed back to the labour membership. There is recognition that the current system is eating at labour.
With a constituency system there will always be a dilemma between the national and local needs. The more marginal the seat the more local needs take priority.
It will be interesting to see how much voting power gets handed back to the labour membership. There is recognition that the current system is eating at labour.
The aspect of a conscience vote that irritates me is exactly as Slap describes - The vote should pass to the regards of the constituents, not the conscience of the individual MP. In reality, your wishes come third in line after the MP's respective party, and then their views on a conscience vote. And yet, strangely they are meant to be there representing us.
If Tony Abbot really wants to get one over on JG, then he should really instruct the liberal party to vote for it, while highlighting how it is JG that is against it. He would gain massive support, and can placate his right wing followers that this was all Labour's idea. But given the far right leaning of the LNP supporter base, I can't see that happening. This is nothing but playing politics to maintain the status quo.
S
Dec 4th 2011, 5:30 am
#36
Officially Bewildered
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
Posts: 5,523
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
I could live with that, but never marriage.
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Except they can, they just have to do a foundation course first - so they get the same opportunity they just have to go about it in a different way.
Dec 4th 2011, 5:46 am
#37
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Gillard was against but gave into the conscience vote option as a compromise. Supposedly it is certain QLD mps who are against. Abbott is vehemently anti gay marriage but needs to shake off his religious right stigma.
I think a referendum would be rather expensive. In a few years people will wonder what the fuss was about. A bit like when Aborigines were allowed to vote.
I think a referendum would be rather expensive. In a few years people will wonder what the fuss was about. A bit like when Aborigines were allowed to vote.
Yes, Gillard has only pushed for a conscience vote knowing full well that it will fail because the Liberals and the Labour Left won't support it. This isn't official Labour party policy - even JG herself doesn't support it, so it will ultimately end up being a complete waste of time and money, and will be very unlikely to develop any basis in law. This is a double win for JG though - She declares it a conscience vote, and when it's defeated she can just shrug it off as not being party policy.
The aspect of a conscience vote that irritates me is exactly as Slap describes - The vote should pass to the regards of the constituents, not the conscience of the individual MP. In reality, your wishes come third in line after the MP's respective party, and then their views on a conscience vote. And yet, strangely they are meant to be there representing us.
If Tony Abbot really wants to get one over on JG, then he should really instruct the liberal party to vote for it, while highlighting how it is JG that is against it. He would gain massive support, and can placate his right wing followers that this was all Labour's idea. But given the far right leaning of the LNP supporter base, I can't see that happening. This is nothing but playing politics to maintain the status quo.
S
The aspect of a conscience vote that irritates me is exactly as Slap describes - The vote should pass to the regards of the constituents, not the conscience of the individual MP. In reality, your wishes come third in line after the MP's respective party, and then their views on a conscience vote. And yet, strangely they are meant to be there representing us.
If Tony Abbot really wants to get one over on JG, then he should really instruct the liberal party to vote for it, while highlighting how it is JG that is against it. He would gain massive support, and can placate his right wing followers that this was all Labour's idea. But given the far right leaning of the LNP supporter base, I can't see that happening. This is nothing but playing politics to maintain the status quo.
S
Dec 4th 2011, 5:49 am
#38
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Nigeria has just passed some laws more towards your liking.
I could live with that, but never marriage.
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Leaving my homophopia to one side I think it's something which is impossible to give. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean it's possible to let them have it. For example what happens to someone who left school with the minimum exam results says they want a degree. They won't settle for a CSE as it's inferior at it's not their fault they're not clever enough, it's down to their DNA of which they have no control. All they want is equality!
So no it can't be marriage.
Keel
Dec 4th 2011, 5:49 am
#39
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Northumberland to Maida Vale Perth
Posts: 972
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
But its nothing like that. If you want to use the educational analogy, then you'd say that someone who got CSEs (they're not called that now, but I don't want to confuse you) couldn't go to Uni because they weren't clever enough, so that isn't fair.
Except they can, they just have to do a foundation course first - so they get the same opportunity they just have to go about it in a different way.
Except they can, they just have to do a foundation course first - so they get the same opportunity they just have to go about it in a different way.
I know they're not called CSE's anymore but that is what I left school with.
Keel
Dec 4th 2011, 5:51 am
#40
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Northumberland to Maida Vale Perth
Posts: 972
Dec 4th 2011, 5:52 am
#41
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Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Northumberland to Maida Vale Perth
Posts: 972
Dec 4th 2011, 5:55 am
#42
MODERATOR
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Redneck Wonderland
Posts: 9,932
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
It could become legal, just as long as it doesn't become compulsory, then we'd all be buggered.
Personally I see marriage as more of a religious statement [holy matrimony], the bonding of a man & a woman under the watchful eye of God etc. yadda yadda.
Should politics interfere with religion? If Govt. approves legislation will the church be prosecuted for sexism if they refuse to marry same sex couples?
Personally I see marriage as more of a religious statement [holy matrimony], the bonding of a man & a woman under the watchful eye of God etc. yadda yadda.
Should politics interfere with religion? If Govt. approves legislation will the church be prosecuted for sexism if they refuse to marry same sex couples?
Dec 4th 2011, 5:58 am
#43
has lost The Game
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Chippendale, Sydney
Posts: 8,735
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Gillard was against but gave into the conscience vote option as a compromise. Supposedly it is certain QLD mps who are against. Abbott is vehemently anti gay marriage but needs to shake off his religious right stigma.
I think a referendum would be rather expensive. In a few years people will wonder what the fuss was about. A bit like when Aborigines were allowed to vote.
I think a referendum would be rather expensive. In a few years people will wonder what the fuss was about. A bit like when Aborigines were allowed to vote.
Yes, a referendum would be expensive - but do you think it would be a better way to go than this conscience vote?
Personally, I am completely in favour of it, largely for the reason that if LGB folk are allowed to get married in same sex marriages, then it won't have ANY impact on me or anybody else whatsoever.
And as for the suggestion that it be called something else, well that's frankly laughable. I wonder if such things were ever suggested in South Africa during the apartheid years? You can just imagine it - "Of course blacks can get married, but we just call it by a different name..."
S
Dec 4th 2011, 6:00 am
#44
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
The church has a lot to answer for
no wonder people no longer engage with its outdated thousands of years old teachings
no wonder people no longer engage with its outdated thousands of years old teachings
Dec 4th 2011, 6:08 am
#45
da Bonehead
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Lion in da jungle
Posts: 22,767
Re: Legal Same-Sex Marriage coming to Australia?
Are homo sapiens the only creatures that have homos and lesbians or is it evolutionary from a fish or something?