Originally Posted by xizzles (Post 11631777)

I don't dispute the sneaky suspicion that the courts in Indonesia may be and most probably are less than squeaky clean, given their track records - but hypocrisy or double standards notwithstanding, the facts of the case still remain the same: these were convicted drug traffickers, whose merchandise would have gone on to kill/destroy/rip apart many innocent lives and those of their families.

No amount of double standards, hypocrisy or Indonesian vote buying can possibly excuse the Bali 9 for what they did. Peel away the bluster about the allegations of bribery, the diplomatic posturing, the paintings, the disparity in the figures between locals vs foreigners on death row, the protests and you still get the same result: drug traffickers who wouldn't have cared any less about the lives they were about to destroy, had they been successful.

Like I said earlier, I don't agree with the death penalty, not one bit - but at the same time, I find it really hard to sympathize with the convicts in this particular case.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11631838)

Only because you and Gordon weren't capable of discussing Indonesia and you still haven't mentioned what Australia is hipocritical of. Last time I checked, the legal system was innocent until proven guilty and no sentence includes the death penalty. If you are trying to massage war into it then good for you.

Just so you know the opposition and the greens support what the government has done so far.

Indonesia's execution of Bali Nine pair demands strong reaction, Labor says | World news | The Guardian

Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80 (Post 11631852)

Yes of course the justice system here is miles better.

I meant more hypocritical in the more literal sense of "behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."

You said yourself - where is the condemnation of the "inconsistency, incompetency, bribery and using death to suit your own political agenda"

Don't you think they should be pointing these things out?

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11631858)

Who should be pointing it out. The Australian government? I believe they have. Just watch the press conference from this morning.

Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80 (Post 11631868)

I just watched it all in full. They didn't point out anything of the sort. Abbott said he "respected the Indonesian system" and went out of his way to call his their ministers "polite and courteous" :rofl:

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11631885)

I think they made it pretty clear that the legal process hadn't exhausted all possible avenues and they were extremely upset by this. What do you want them to do. Name calling? Ban flights to Bali only to affect the good Balinese? That would not be good right now. Recalling the ambassador for a briefing is a good start. Not the time to make rash decisions.

Originally Posted by xizzles (Post 11631777)

hypocrisy or double standards notwithstanding, the facts of the case still remain the same: these were convicted drug traffickers, whose merchandise would have gone on to kill/destroy/rip apart many innocent lives and those of their families.

No amount of double standards, hypocrisy or Indonesian vote buying can possibly excuse the Bali 9 for what they did.

Originally Posted by astera (Post 11631893)

Maybe it's just me, but I think that the government's actions effectively sealed the fate of those involved. I mean what do you think is going to happen when you have a PM defending two dope dealers by threatening & blackmailing a sovereign country on an international level to force them to DISREGARD their own laws?

Who are we kidding by thinking this actually helped their case instead of pretty much trying Indonesia's hands and forcing them to show that the law is the law?

Originally Posted by jad n rich (Post 11631888)

10 years of appeals was surely a pretty good innings.

I would love to know what the legal process cost us. I know a while back there was a govt discussion about what Australia was spending on consular help and legal aid to people acting irresponsibly overseas. And the need for Australians to be more accountable.

Originally Posted by Beoz (Post 11631885)

I think they made it pretty clear that the legal process hadn't exhausted all possible avenues and they were extremely upset by this. What do you want them to do. Name calling? Ban flights to Bali only to affect the good Balinese? That would not be good right now. Recalling the ambassador for a briefing is a good start. Not the time to make rash decisions.

Originally Posted by jad n rich (Post 11631888)

10 years of appeals was surely a pretty good innings.

I would love to know what the legal process cost us. I know a while back there was a govt discussion about what Australia was spending on consular help and legal aid to people acting irresponsibly overseas. And the need for Australians to be more accountable.

Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80 (Post 11631909)

Must have been watching something different. 'cruel and "unnecessary" was as critical as it got, in amongst plenty of "unfortunates" and "disappointings" and bit of arse-kissing.

Their main point seemed to be the dudes had been successfully rehabilitated - a good and fair argument - but they stopped short of condemning the death penalty, which would have been a good start and at least shown the tiniest amount of balls. (unless secretly they agree with it :ohmy:)

I expect to hear a lot of how terribly important Indonesia is in the "war on terror' in the next few days.