|
Indonesian Executions
Clearly the Indonesians are doing this for propaganda. Check this article. Who lets photographers take photo's of coffins and crosses and release to the media.
Bali Nine executions: Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan’s lawyer wants ‘bribe’ probed The Indonesians had to be very careful about the way they handled the Saudi beheadings. Informally they sent out a rent a crowd (apparently easy to get in Jakarta) to throw eggs at the Saudi embassy. Whilst formally they paid some more bribe money, and gingerly had a chat with the Saudi's. Following this week’s executions, the Indonesian government summoned Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to express its disappointment. Rather than focusing specifically on the deaths themselves, however, Indonesia took issue with not receiving proper, prior notification that the executions were to take place. “The Indonesian government, once again, has expressed its disappointment that Indonesian representatives in both Riyadh and Jeddah didn’t receive information about the timing of the execution of Karni binti Medi Tarsim,†the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement. Indonesia activists throw rotten eggs at Saudi embassy to protest executions ucanews.com Talk about getting yourself caught between a rock and hard place through your own hypocrisy. Either way, the puppet for Indonesia's power brokers, Joko Widodo is screwed. There was a lot of hope pinning on this guy especially on the international stage. Gone. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11630756)
Clearly the Indonesians are doing this for propaganda. Check this article. Who lets photographers take photo's of coffins and crosses and release to the media.
Bali Nine executions: Myuran Sukumaran and Andrew Chan’s lawyer wants ‘bribe’ probed The Indonesians had to be very careful about the way they handled the Saudi beheadings. Informally they sent out a rent a crowd (apparently easy to get in Jakarta) to throw eggs at the Saudi embassy. Whilst formally they paid some more bribe money, and gingerly had a chat with the Saudi's. Following this week’s executions, the Indonesian government summoned Saudi Arabia’s ambassador to express its disappointment. Rather than focusing specifically on the deaths themselves, however, Indonesia took issue with not receiving proper, prior notification that the executions were to take place. “The Indonesian government, once again, has expressed its disappointment that Indonesian representatives in both Riyadh and Jeddah didn’t receive information about the timing of the execution of Karni binti Medi Tarsim,†the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement. Indonesia activists throw rotten eggs at Saudi embassy to protest executions ucanews.com Talk about getting yourself caught between a rock and hard place through your own hypocrisy. Either way, the puppet for Indonesia's power brokers, Joko Widodo is screwed. There was a lot of hope pinning on this guy especially on the international stage. Gone. Plus it's ASEAN this week, so all eyes will be on the Asian countries. Not a great time to be executing people I wouldn't have thought. S |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Staged or enough hungry press set up all over the departure point to the island, that shots of relatives, coffins, crosses and possibly the returning coffins will all be part of the media haul.
The whole situation is going to attract a wide variety of opinions. And argument. As is the Death penalty. Opinions and argument. We often go to in the snow of Utah USA, it took me back they have the death penalty too. For murder mainly, one could argue Drug trafficking is also a form of murder. Indonesia makes it laws clear. Australia has spent 10 years and what must be a mind boggling amount of millions of taxpayer money defending these men, I am not sure what else they could have done. Odd situation in that it was Australia that blew the whistle on them after all. Australia did not want that drug haul here, one little haul stopped thousand more came in. But mixed messages. Indonesia's message is at least clear and consistent, tourists know the rules, as do traffickers. Australia's is mixed, traffic drugs and we will spend 10 years defending you? What the families are going thorough must be intolerable, the media is having a gawk fest. Greed for money made people do stupid things, or calculated things, opinons again. Mary Jane Veloso, one of the others to be executed that in my mind, should have been given some doubt as to her guilt. Interesting reading, even if she was guilty it was probably done out of poverty and abuse not greed. The saddest thing of all is, even after all the publicity, in a few months, more will be caught doing the same thing. Heartbreaking, for their families, the junkies, the mules to some extent, the ringleaders? Opinions and argument. May the families find peace after this. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by jad n rich
(Post 11630885)
Odd situation in that it was Australia that blew the whistle on them after all. Australia did not want that drug haul here, one little haul stopped thousand more came in. But mixed messages.
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11630893)
Whoopsy. Nice work Feds.
Yes, this has long been the bone of contention with this case. The AFP could have stopped them in Australia, where there is no death sentence. Instead, they elected to let them proceed to Indonesia, where they alerted the Indonesian authorities to the package. S |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by jad n rich
(Post 11630885)
one could argue Drug trafficking is also a form of murder.
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by GarryP
(Post 11630923)
One could also argue that drug laws are a form of prohibition - which is known to benefit only criminals and the police. Fundamentally rethinking a set of laws which are supposed to help, but only make things worse, might be a good idea.
Definitely don't agree with the death sentence, especially a firing squad. Maybe I'm being very ignorant but what kind of nut case wants to be an executioner in a firing squad? Maybe it's pure obligation if you enlist for service. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Yes, complicated issue but surely there needs to be some deterrent in place for major crime - and trying to make yourself rich out of peddling someone's else's misery is a major crime and always should be. I guess the two knew there was the death penalty in Indonesia if caught so no sympathy for them and the circumstances which led to them not being nabbed in a more lenient society in pursuit of a fast buck. I can't help thinking if they were caught in Oz they wouldn't get a long jail sentence, it would be shortened for good behaviour and 'genuine remorse' they express as they volunteer to take painting classes in the jail and there would be a good chance they'd be back on the streets or planes and peddling. I'm not in favour of the death penalty but it's on the books in Indonesia and these guys knew it; they just hoped they wouldn't be caught.
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
I may not agree with the death penalty, but I cannot agree with drug traffickers destroying the lives of so many other people and that of their families either.
Every time I fly into Singapore on Singapore Airlines, they make this announcement about how severe the penalties are for drug traffickers. Apparently, it's the same for Malaysia Airlines flying into Kuala Lumpur. I'm not sure about any announcements flying into Indonesia, but I'd imagine these guys knew what the law of the land was. They chose to risk it, they got caught and now they have to pay the ultimate price. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by knockoff nige
(Post 11630962)
Definitely don't agree with the death sentence, especially a firing squad. Maybe I'm being very ignorant but what kind of nut case wants to be an executioner in a firing squad?
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by xizzles
(Post 11631244)
I may not agree with the death penalty, but I cannot agree with drug traffickers destroying the lives of so many other people and that of their families either.
Every time I fly into Singapore on Singapore Airlines, they make this announcement about how severe the penalties are for drug traffickers. Apparently, it's the same for Malaysia Airlines flying into Kuala Lumpur. I'm not sure about any announcements flying into Indonesia, but I'd imagine these guys knew what the law of the land was. They chose to risk it, they got caught and now they have to pay the ultimate price. Take a look at the figures. What proportion of foreigners are on death row or executed compared to locals. Ok lets look at this. If there are that many foreigners on death row who were caught on Indonesian soil, they must have been dealing with locals somewhere along the line. Where are they? |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631689)
The issue here is not about the crime or penalties. Its about the double standards, hypocrisy, vote buying by death penalty by the indonesian government.
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
(Post 11631703)
All nations operate double standards. Australia has just been celebrating Anzac Day, the invasion of a foreign country that posed no threat to Oz. It's the deaths of the invaders (our people) that are mourned, not the deaths of the victims (their people). That's just the way things are in the world.
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
No-one comes out of this well.
The Indonesion govt are proven to be corrupt murderers. The Australian govt are weak-willed hypocrites. Oooh withdrawing your ambassador. That'll really teach them. Are we going to say anything about the death penalty in Saudi Arabia, China, the US, etc? Thought not. The Australian media harp on with their usual double standards. If these blokes were caught in Australia they would be scum of the earth and jail would be too good them. Now suddenly they are martyrs. The Australian public indulge in a bit of grief porn to make themselves feel better before going to their skinny lattes. Meanwhile, 2 Australians, 4 Nigerians, an Indonesian and a mentally ill Brazilian got shot. What a waste. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631689)
The issue here is not about the crime or penalties. Its about the double standards, hypocrisy, vote buying by death penalty by the indonesian government. The bribery and corruption surrounding such a final penalty .... death.
Take a look at the figures. What proportion of foreigners are on death row or executed compared to locals. Ok lets look at this. If there are that many foreigners on death row who were caught on Indonesian soil, they must have been dealing with locals somewhere along the line. Where are they? No amount of double standards, hypocrisy or Indonesian vote buying can possibly excuse the Bali 9 for what they did. Peel away the bluster about the allegations of bribery, the diplomatic posturing, the paintings, the disparity in the figures between locals vs foreigners on death row, the protests and you still get the same result: drug traffickers who wouldn't have cared any less about the lives they were about to destroy, had they been successful. Like I said earlier, I don't agree with the death penalty, not one bit - but at the same time, I find it really hard to sympathize with the convicts in this particular case. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80
(Post 11631770)
No-one comes out of this well.
The Indonesion govt are proven to be corrupt murderers. The Australian govt are weak-willed hypocrites. Oooh withdrawing your ambassador. That'll really teach them. Are we going to say anything about the death penalty in Saudi Arabia, China, the US, etc? Thought not. The Australian media harp on with their usual double standards. If these blokes were caught in Australia they would be scum of the earth and jail would be too good them. Now suddenly they are martyrs. The Australian public indulge in a bit of grief porn to make themselves feel better before going to their skinny lattes. Meanwhile, 2 Australians, 4 Nigerians, an Indonesian and a mentally ill Brazilian got shot. What a waste. Have to agree with all of this. Though by the timing of the executions, it does feel like the Indonesians are determined to piss people off. Withdrawing the ambassador? Yeah, not a powerful response. Actually, I would have thought that given the diplomatic exchanges that have taken place over the preceding months, the ambassador would have built up a lot of contacts etc and that this could be a very backwards move. As Beoz has pointed out, a lot of this does hinge on the double standards of the Indonesian government, and the inherent corruption therein, however to my mind of thinking there was a clear decision made by the AFP to let them leave Australia and then grass them up to the Indonesian authorities. There must have been some consideration of the likely repercussions there. But heaven forbid that any criticism is ever leveled at the AFP. These two are definitely not martyrs, and as with Corby, I suspect that many Australians will simply now fail to see what they did that lead them to this end. I mean, they were Australian for goodness sake! They must have been innocent! S |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80
(Post 11631770)
No-one comes out of this well.
The Indonesion govt are proven to be corrupt murderers. The Australian govt are weak-willed hypocrites. Oooh withdrawing your ambassador. That'll really teach them. Are we going to say anything about the death penalty in Saudi Arabia, China, the US, etc? Thought not. The Australian media harp on with their usual double standards. If these blokes were caught in Australia they would be scum of the earth and jail would be too good them. Now suddenly they are martyrs. The Australian public indulge in a bit of grief porn to make themselves feel better before going to their skinny lattes. Meanwhile, 2 Australians, 4 Nigerians, an Indonesian and a mentally ill Brazilian got shot. What a waste. If they had been caught on Australian soil they would be in prison going through a rehabilitation process. Once rehabilitated returned to the community. So where does the hypocrisy of the Australian government lie? And why should Australia extend its resources to help the other countries when its first and foremost obligation is for its own citizens. Aren't other countries capable of lobbying for their own? It appears Indonesia were capable in lobbying for their Saudi maids. Indirectly Australia helped the other executed in this case anyway. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 11631782)
Have to agree with all of this. Though by the timing of the executions, it does feel like the Indonesians are determined to piss people off.
Withdrawing the ambassador? Yeah, not a powerful response. Actually, I would have thought that given the diplomatic exchanges that have taken place over the preceding months, the ambassador would have built up a lot of contacts etc and that this could be a very backwards move. As Beoz has pointed out, a lot of this does hinge on the double standards of the Indonesian government, and the inherent corruption therein, however to my mind of thinking there was a clear decision made by the AFP to let them leave Australia and then grass them up to the Indonesian authorities. There must have been some consideration of the likely repercussions there. But heaven forbid that any criticism is ever leveled at the AFP. These two are definitely not martyrs, and as with Corby, I suspect that many Australians will simply now fail to see what they did that lead them to this end. I mean, they were Australian for goodness sake! They must have been innocent! S Agree they are not martyrs but they appeared to be rehabilitated and that in itself should be commended. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631786)
I thought it was the other way around. They were exiting Bali for Australia with the gear when the feds tipped off the Indonesians.
Agree they are not martyrs but they appeared to be rehabilitated and that in itself should be commended. Sorry - you're right it bwas the other way around - but the fact remains that the decision was made to intercept them on Indonesian territory rather than on Australian. They weren't going to dispose of the stuff on the flight, so they could have easily been intercepted here. As for rehabilitation, yes, that does appear to have been the case, but some countries don't recognise it, and their justice systems are more focused on revenge than on rehab and/or justice. At the end of the day, through the AFP's action/inaction, this ended up as a domestic criminal issue within a sovereign state. Unfortunately that state has a lower threshold of value for human life, but as another poster pointed out, the risks were known, and nether of them appeared to be doing it out of desperation. I see little more that Australia could have done. But, processes could be introduced to make sure this doesn't happen again. I see some are calling for Australia to impose sanctions on Indonesia. I'm not sure if this would even be legal would it? S |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by xizzles
(Post 11631777)
I don't dispute the sneaky suspicion that the courts in Indonesia may be and most probably are less than squeaky clean, given their track records - but hypocrisy or double standards notwithstanding, the facts of the case still remain the same: these were convicted drug traffickers, whose merchandise would have gone on to kill/destroy/rip apart many innocent lives and those of their families.
No amount of double standards, hypocrisy or Indonesian vote buying can possibly excuse the Bali 9 for what they did. Peel away the bluster about the allegations of bribery, the diplomatic posturing, the paintings, the disparity in the figures between locals vs foreigners on death row, the protests and you still get the same result: drug traffickers who wouldn't have cared any less about the lives they were about to destroy, had they been successful. Like I said earlier, I don't agree with the death penalty, not one bit - but at the same time, I find it really hard to sympathize with the convicts in this particular case. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 11631789)
Sorry - you're right it bwas the other way around - but the fact remains that the decision was made to intercept them on Indonesian territory rather than on Australian. They weren't going to dispose of the stuff on the flight, so they could have easily been intercepted here.
As for rehabilitation, yes, that does appear to have been the case, but some countries don't recognise it, and their justice systems are more focused on revenge than on rehab and/or justice. At the end of the day, through the AFP's action/inaction, this ended up as a domestic criminal issue within a sovereign state. Unfortunately that state has a lower threshold of value for human life, but as another poster pointed out, the risks were known, and nether of them appeared to be doing it out of desperation. I see little more that Australia could have done. But, processes could be introduced to make sure this doesn't happen again. I see some are calling for Australia to impose sanctions on Indonesia. I'm not sure if this would even be legal would it? S |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Swerv-o
(Post 11631789)
Sorry - you're right it bwas the other way around - but the fact remains that the decision was made to intercept them on Indonesian territory rather than on Australian. They weren't going to dispose of the stuff on the flight, so they could have easily been intercepted here.
And I also think a good part of the reason they didn't get clemency was the small matters of East Timor, bugging the indonesian president's phone, and Abbott's high handed "we're turning back the boats, stuff you" approach. No friends there. Indonesia seems to have small man fever - trying to prove that they are important and 'of consequence' in the world - coupled with the domestic audience that says foreigners get away with things natives are killed/jailed for. Thus they end up doing things that make them look worse in the world, whilst trying to look strong and principled. As to a response, the obvious measure is to stop direct flights to Bali - which would pretty much kill the place dead, and cost Indonesia real money. However, from the PoV of the Australian government, despite the crocodile tears, they really don't care that much. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631799)
I actually haven't got a big problem with a countries right have its own opinion on rehabilition. I have a problem with inconsistency, incompetencey, bribery and using death to suit your own political agenda.
I completely agree - the Indonesian approach here is wholly inconsistent, but my point is that there is very little that we can do about it, beyond taking steps to make sure that if these circumstances arise again, then they should be dealt with on home soil, rather than overseas. S |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631784)
Sorry but how did the focus turn from the Indonesian government to the Australian government. Oh thats right you have another agenda.
If they had been caught on Australian soil they would be in prison going through a rehabilitation process. Once rehabilitated returned to the community. So where does the hypocrisy of the Australian government lie? And why should Australia extend its resources to help the other countries when its first and foremost obligation is for its own citizens. Aren't other countries capable of lobbying for their own? It appears Indonesia were capable in lobbying for their Saudi maids. Indirectly Australia helped the other executed in this case anyway. Everything they are doing at the moment is just posturing. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Indonesia = stands up to the perceived pressures from foreign governments, repels veiled threats and sanctions of the same, exerts its sovereign right to enforce its domestic laws and executes the guilty to shore up local voters' support for the next election.
Australia = exhausts all legal appeal venues, personal diplomatic calls to beg for clemency, recalls ambassador - ostensibly in protest, but in truth, perhaps also to shore up local voters' support for the next election. Same brown stuff, different rusty bucket. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Speaking of double standards... The Australian government is happy to be part of hunt-and-kill operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places, where the victims have never been tried and found guilty of any crime - yet it objects to the Indonesian government's killing of foreigners who have broken one of the country's most defensible laws. This link is instructive.
The kill chain: Australia's drone war - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) Now I am not enthusiastic about the death penalty, myself, but I can see why some nations have it on their books. (Of course Australia doesn't even have it on its books, although it is an accessory to plenty of quasi-judicial murders in the Middle East. Wow. That's a cracker of a double standard, there! SMH, as they say.) |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80
(Post 11631808)
The Aus govt are just going through the motions. Relations will be back to normal in a few months and they will continue to turn a blind eye. They need the assistance of Indonesia, particularly regarding people smugglers.
Everything they are doing at the moment is just posturing. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
(Post 11631819)
Speaking of double standards... The Australian government is happy to be part of hunt-and-kill operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places, where the victims have never been tried and found guilty of any crime - yet it objects to the Indonesian government's killing of foreigners who have broken one of the country's most defensible laws. This link is instructive.
The kill chain: Australia's drone war - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) Now I am not enthusiastic about the death penalty, myself, but I can see why some nations have it on their books. (Of course Australia doesn't even have it on its books, although it is an accessory to plenty of quasi-judicial murders in the Middle East. Wow. That's a cracker of a double standard, there! SMH, as they say.) You should post this on another thread where we can have a real geeky chat about drones. Because on here it has nothing to do with the topic at hand despite your best attempts to massage it into one. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631822)
Turn a blind eye to what? Best not to assume everyone has the same political agenda. Spell out what exactly you mean.
Also see Gordons post above. You seem to be the one focusing on the Aus govt now by the way. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80
(Post 11631832)
Indonesian justice system, corruption, executing foreigners. Whatever. Take your pick. Whatever it is the public/media are angry about they have to pay lip service to. They really don't give a shit they just have to be seen to do something.
Also see Gordons post above. You seem to be the one focusing on the Aus govt now by the way. Just so you know the opposition and the greens support what the government has done so far. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/29/labor-calls-strong-reaction-indonesia-execution-bali-nine-pair |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by xizzles
(Post 11631777)
I don't dispute the sneaky suspicion that the courts in Indonesia may be and most probably are less than squeaky clean, given their track records - but hypocrisy or double standards notwithstanding, the facts of the case still remain the same: these were convicted drug traffickers, whose merchandise would have gone on to kill/destroy/rip apart many innocent lives and those of their families.
No amount of double standards, hypocrisy or Indonesian vote buying can possibly excuse the Bali 9 for what they did. Peel away the bluster about the allegations of bribery, the diplomatic posturing, the paintings, the disparity in the figures between locals vs foreigners on death row, the protests and you still get the same result: drug traffickers who wouldn't have cared any less about the lives they were about to destroy, had they been successful. Like I said earlier, I don't agree with the death penalty, not one bit - but at the same time, I find it really hard to sympathize with the convicts in this particular case. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631838)
Only because you and Gordon weren't capable of discussing Indonesia and you still haven't mentioned what Australia is hipocritical of. Last time I checked, the legal system was innocent until proven guilty and no sentence includes the death penalty. If you are trying to massage war into it then good for you.
Just so you know the opposition and the greens support what the government has done so far. Indonesia's execution of Bali Nine pair demands strong reaction, Labor says | World news | The Guardian I meant more hypocritical in the more literal sense of "behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case." You said yourself - where is the condemnation of the "inconsistency, incompetency, bribery and using death to suit your own political agenda" Don't you think they should be pointing these things out? |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80
(Post 11631852)
Yes of course the justice system here is miles better.
I meant more hypocritical in the more literal sense of "behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case." You said yourself - where is the condemnation of the "inconsistency, incompetency, bribery and using death to suit your own political agenda" Don't you think they should be pointing these things out? |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631858)
Who should be pointing it out. The Australian government? I believe they have. Just watch the press conference from this morning.
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by JoeBloggs80
(Post 11631868)
I just watched it all in full. They didn't point out anything of the sort. Abbott said he "respected the Indonesian system" and went out of his way to call his their ministers "polite and courteous" :rofl:
|
Re: Indonesian Executions
Indonesia is far too big a financial player in our region ( asia ) to piss them off.
so Ohhhh withdraw the ambassador, big deal. I agree, people seem to forget what they did. They are rapidly reaching that 'aussie hero status ' :blink: Intelligent men who knew what they were doing, and would probably have done it again if not caught, and again.... Aussie govt could have taken another stance. How manyAussie kids lives were saved by this drug ring being busted. ? We don't agree with the death penalty but as Australians must realise when we travel overseas we have a legal obligation to oblige by the laws of the Countries we visit. Their laws may include Death penalties. We in Australia expect visitors coming to our country to abide by the law, even at arrival, a piece of fruit or a packet of cereal may be a breach of our laws. We enforce our laws, our way, we reserve that right. So we expect our citizens to do the same when overseas. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by Beoz
(Post 11631885)
I think they made it pretty clear that the legal process hadn't exhausted all possible avenues and they were extremely upset by this. What do you want them to do. Name calling? Ban flights to Bali only to affect the good Balinese? That would not be good right now. Recalling the ambassador for a briefing is a good start. Not the time to make rash decisions.
I would love to know what the legal process cost us. I know a while back there was a govt discussion about what Australia was spending on consular help and legal aid to people acting irresponsibly overseas. And the need for Australians to be more accountable. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by xizzles
(Post 11631777)
hypocrisy or double standards notwithstanding, the facts of the case still remain the same: these were convicted drug traffickers, whose merchandise would have gone on to kill/destroy/rip apart many innocent lives and those of their families.
No amount of double standards, hypocrisy or Indonesian vote buying can possibly excuse the Bali 9 for what they did. They could have saved this political capital for another time, in a case that truly warranted intervention on a gov't level. Not on people who knew exactly what they were doing (including the penalties involved) and would have ruined the lives of many families had their plan succeeded. Maybe it's just me, but I think that the government's actions effectively sealed the fate of those involved. I mean what do you think is going to happen when you have a PM defending two dope dealers by threatening & blackmailing a sovereign country on an international level to force them to DISREGARD their own laws? Who are we kidding by thinking this actually helped their case instead of pretty much trying Indonesia's hands and forcing them to show that the law is the law? |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Originally Posted by astera
(Post 11631893)
Maybe it's just me, but I think that the government's actions effectively sealed the fate of those involved. I mean what do you think is going to happen when you have a PM defending two dope dealers by threatening & blackmailing a sovereign country on an international level to force them to DISREGARD their own laws? Who are we kidding by thinking this actually helped their case instead of pretty much trying Indonesia's hands and forcing them to show that the law is the law? How would Australia react to a govt telling them what to do. They couldn't even deal with Obama's comments on the Great Barrier Reef's deterioration while he was here briefly last year. |
Re: Indonesian Executions
Its getting really silly now.
Clive Palmer has reportedly called for aussies to boycott Bali and holiday in Queensland instead. Presumably at his resort/electorate in QLD. :lol: |
| All times are GMT -12. The time now is 1:54 am. |
Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.