British Expats - Cop Bashers Walk Free

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Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by renth (Post 7382912)

The cops saved the dad's life, they administered CPR on him.

So if I go out and stab a cop now, then rush him to the hospital is that ok?

If I were a cynic I could suggest the cops were trying to limit any future charge against them being limited to assault rather than manslaughter/murder.

But I would never suggest such a thing.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by renth (Post 7382908)

I don't.

Fair enough.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by renth (Post 7382810)

I'd seen the footage prior to the trial and yes

As had no doubt all the jurors, a nice move by the prosecution to get them feeling as you did and prejudice the case.

Must have been some compelling evidence to trump that;)

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

[QUOTE=Dennis The Menace;7381600]

Quote:

Originally Posted by the troubadour (Post 7381589)

I wouldnÂ´t disclose it on an open forum, My statement to you remains firmly in place

As does my statement to you.I repeat what i have already stated in another way.We can not allow our policemen/women to go ferral...they must remain above reproach and be fully accountable.
It is a tough job...but if unable to conduct one self in a fully proffesional way ,which requires a high level a mental toughness along with many other atributes then they should seek out alternative employment.
Such policing methods where the police become the bashers(and i talk in the general sense here,)may well work in China and tin pot Latin American regemes in Australia we must insist on a far higher level of conduct from our police.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by fraser (Post 7382307)

A funny and expected response by you. So obviously because I've spent time in prison this has relevance to my opinion? I didn't even give one though did I?

I just said that nobody has all the facts.

If the police assaulted (notice the if) the guy, no they were not doing their jobs, they were committing a criminal offence.

If he was going to taser the guy again, he was out of order as there would have been no need what so ever.

If that was the case were his sons supposed to allow this and suffer the possible consequence of his death, although that would be ok because it could be investigated later and put to the proper complaints procedure?

That jury must have had a damn good reason to return a not guilty as nobody would do that lightly, not with all the people reacting like on this thread ready to hang them out to dry without even having heard the facts.

It would have been easy for them to return a verdict of guilty to appease the public, but maybe they just wanted to see justice done if so, I applaud them.

PS. the fact that you think that I should be cautioned by the mods on the site because I don't agree that armed cops shooting a 15 yr old boy is reasonable force is pathetic:rofl:

Totally outrageous....Agree fully with your sentiments..and even if not you fully have the right to state those views.
There is a segment of the population that seem to feel duty bound in their attempts to further erode the rights to free speech...deny them the right.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by renth (Post 7382903)

those cops ... were breaking up a brawl and the only way you can do that is with force.

Yes - but the jury found that the degree of force was unreasonable and therefore constituted an assault. You understand that, right?

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by renth (Post 7382502)

I could kill a man in front of witnesses and get off if I had a a $200,000 QC defending me, just like they did.

It was a cut and dried case the jury got it wrong, they were numpties. Just about everyone manages to worm their way out of jury duty in Perth leaving the dregs.

Actually seems not so cut and dry.....but in a sense you have a point in that the marginalised classes depending on state appointed legal representation has always encountered poor outcomes in comparison with the wealthier who afford in many instances to purchase more favorable results.
With regards to jury service i must admit to being a little shocked here in Perth with the way people turn out.In London at least people made an effort to dress the part and had a little more nouce about them.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by dribbly cheeks (Post 7382522)

i am not suprised this family walked free, i have seen how some cops behave, i say some and not all. There was definately a group of cops working in the area that used to like using a lot of force to arrest people, i know for a fact. these were mainly cops in their late 20's early 30's and they would be very heavy handed, it did not take much for them to point a taser gun at someone, i have seen it happen on many occasions.

We do not know all the facts in this case, and if it is being said that the police were heavy handed in their initial attempts to stop the violence it is of no suprise to me. saying that , i cant think of a more violent assault than the one committed by the mcleod boy.

Having watched the video of the assault on Const Butcher, i am shocked to see the very poor response from his collegues, they seemed to be standing around and not doing an awful lot which very much goes against the evidence that they were heavy handed. But the fact of the matter is they basically done nothing to stop the boy mcleod launching himself at Const Butcher. There is one cop trying to put someones hands behind his back and the guy just pulls away and walks off.

There is only one victim here and it is Const Butcher, the WA Police Service will wash their hands of him, not now, they will let the dust settle first, if he is not able to fulfil his job description then he is of no use to them and they will part company. My own feeling is, had the other cops had recent training in this type of incident then maybe they would have acted differently, it is unfortunate that the training these police officers receive in this type of incident last for 4 weeks, it is very good training they get, but like anyone, skills need to be honed and updated on a regular basis, some, if not all those cops present had not had any training in those types of incidents for several years, if they had, maybe things might have been a bit different.

Expect you could be right, guess at the end of the day the Police will milk the injuries sadly inflicted on Cons Butcher,by attempting to impose dracion laws that will go something like any hand laid on any part of a police officer will be deemed as an assault etc,etc.And yes poor Const Butcher will disappear from view.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by renth (Post 7382757)

You're commenting on your own comment.

It's never OK to assault a police officer even if you believe they are assaulting someone else. You step back and don't get involved.

Not at all.If a police officer is assaulting a citizen when it is not in self defence i would like to think that i most certainally get involved.(in a passive sense)
The involvement would be in the nature of recording all witnessed,actions and words.I would attempt where possible to have any one around to witness also.
All relivant info like police number etc would record.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

[QUOTE=the troubadour;7383163]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis The Menace (Post 7381600)

From watching the video, it looked to me like the McLeod's were the ferrels, with a bunch of cops who could not control them, it looked like it was all turning to shit and getting nasty, so the cop was placed in a situation where he had to taser the father before it got really nasty, and then one of the sons goes and king hits the cop from behind.

Though the dad suffered a heart attack, the cops were not to know he suffered from a heart condition, if he is fit and healthy enough to go and get pissed, and involved himself in brawls, he is fit and healthy enough to be dealt with by police.

Belive it or not the police did not ask to go and deal with this situation, they were sent there because people called 000, the police went there acting in the course of their duties, they tried to intervene as they are duty bound to do. When looking at the footage the McLeods were drunk, non compliant and aggressive, and are hardly the angels people are portraying them to be here (what was it Scot said to the guy videoing the incident - 'delete that or i'll ****ing kill you.' Of course this comment was explained by his defence lawyer merely as a comment made in the heat of the moment.) I am dubmfounded that people are sticking up for them.

I can imagine how this situation was painted by the lawyer in court, i can see a smart defence lawyer making the police look like a bunch of bullies, and bringing it on themselves. When you look at the footage thats not what i see, i see a female officer who looks petrified and doesn't seem to know what to do, and other police officers who are desperately trying to control a situation which has got completely out of hand, and not possible to control with the amount of cops at the scene without resorting to taser or some other use of force option (and there aren't many other options, pepper spray does not work most of the time, and you just get covered in the stuff yourself, can't speak for using a baton). You only have to look at the pictures of the McLeod's, those are big guys, i am a big guy, and i tell you there is no way in hell myself, or your average person, on their own, even with training could control and then cuff one of those guys when they are going off, without resorting to using taser, whacking them in the face and knocking them out (and we all know how the police would be criticized for that), or something similar.

Don't get me wrong, i know we all have different opinions on things, thats only natural, but the way people are describing the police conduct on the footage, i am wondering if we have been watching the same footage.:confused:

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

I don't really see anyone sticking up for the scumbags concerned, only pointing out that if the police use excessive force then they are in the wrong.
The jury had the evidence presented to them and it was put through the system.
Like it or not, that's how it works

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baz (Post 7383276)

the way people are describing the police conduct on the footage, i am wondering if we have been watching the same footage.:confused:

Yes, but the video doesn't show the whole thing from beginning to end, does it? And the fact that the cop was headbutted isn't disputed by anyone.

If you walk in on me smacking someone over the head with a bit of 2x4, then you'd be a reasonable person to assume I'd be battering them. But if it turned out that a second before that they'd leapt out at me with a dagger and I just grabbed whatever was at hand to defend myself, then it'd be a different matter. Do you see?

People say that the camera doesn't lie, but in this case it's certainly not telling the whole story (except on the charge relating to the death threat, for which he was rightly - although perhaps harshly - convicted). The video was not the only evidence.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Bugger it! I love the naivete of some people that are new to this country. Yes, I believe in the utmost respect for cops and authority but the Aussie cops are their own breed. To suggest that they are unwitting and innocent bystanders in every situation is ridiculous. Im not referring to this particular case but if youy had an older realative with a health condition and you saw a police officer stun them with a tazer knowing it may kill them...........you would just stand there and say "oh well, Im gonna have respect for the law and just let them annihilate said unarmed relative for the sake of a drunken scuffle"????

Life is short as we are often told and it is certainly too short to let members of your own family be attacked and possibly killed because an armed public servant couldnt draw his weapon fast enough.

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer Dibble (Post 7383704)

if youy had an older realative with a health condition and you saw a police officer stun them with a tazer knowing it may kill them.

But in this case should bloke with a known heart condition be in a pub all day pissing up and brawling with his 2 fine sons, he is 56 a granddad FFS not a twenty year old.
A fine figure of a man :lol: Chips off the OLD block
Hope they all get what they rightly deserve eventually

Re: Cop Bashers Walk Free

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickyjohnt (Post 7384384)

Karma will come and smack them on the face at some point. :D I hope though that none of the general public decide to take to handing out the karma themselves. Sods law they'd get a jury that would hang them out to dry.