Australia's burning
#166
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Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,814
Re: Australia's burning
So, the drought's got nothing to do with it? Err, okay. Controlled burns are inherently risky at the best of times. Look at the one in the SW of WA a few years ago - very well planned, ideal conditions when they started, yet ended up taking out a couple of houses. Burning after several years of very little rain would be extremely risky - if not impossible
Governments need to get realistic and do more planning. We've always got plenty of helitacs (many of which come from the US) and light fixed-wing bombers - but only 1 largish aircraft - a Boeing 737 leased by the NSW government. There are scores of large fire-fighting aircraft in the US and Canada - and they are very effective. In their winter, they sit idle. Lease some of them during our summer and bring them down here. Expensive yes, but peanuts compared to the human and economic cost of these fires
Governments need to get realistic and do more planning. We've always got plenty of helitacs (many of which come from the US) and light fixed-wing bombers - but only 1 largish aircraft - a Boeing 737 leased by the NSW government. There are scores of large fire-fighting aircraft in the US and Canada - and they are very effective. In their winter, they sit idle. Lease some of them during our summer and bring them down here. Expensive yes, but peanuts compared to the human and economic cost of these fires
And on occasion all aircraft have been grounded due to thoughtless people flying drones in the area.
(personal opinions only)
#167
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,814
Re: Australia's burning
Is he involved in fire or emergency services at all or is his view that of a lay-person relying on open source media?
#168
Banned
Joined: Nov 2019
Location: St Pée sur Nivelle
Posts: 992
Re: Australia's burning
So, the drought's got nothing to do with it? Err, okay. Controlled burns are inherently risky at the best of times. Look at the one in the SW of WA a few years ago - very well planned, ideal conditions when they started, yet ended up taking out a couple of houses. Burning after several years of very little rain would be extremely risky - if not impossible
Governments need to get realistic and do more planning. We've always got plenty of helitacs (many of which come from the US) and light fixed-wing bombers - but only 1 largish aircraft - a Boeing 737 leased by the NSW government. There are scores of large fire-fighting aircraft in the US and Canada - and they are very effective. In their winter, they sit idle. Lease some of them during our summer and bring them down here. Expensive yes, but peanuts compared to the human and economic cost of these fires
Governments need to get realistic and do more planning. We've always got plenty of helitacs (many of which come from the US) and light fixed-wing bombers - but only 1 largish aircraft - a Boeing 737 leased by the NSW government. There are scores of large fire-fighting aircraft in the US and Canada - and they are very effective. In their winter, they sit idle. Lease some of them during our summer and bring them down here. Expensive yes, but peanuts compared to the human and economic cost of these fires
#169
Re: Australia's burning
Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.
#170
Re: Australia's burning
I can only speak for the Gospers Mountain fire, but the commissioner said that even if they'd been able to do all the hazard reduction they wanted, it wouldn't have made much of an impact on that fire. I was reading earlier about one of the fire zones down on the south coast of NSW - they'd had hazard reduction over the winter, then they had the fire front go through and thought they were finally in the clear... then when the wind turned it back on itself, they had fireballs lighting up the crowns of the trees and causing another fire incident. Everything is just so incredibly dry
Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.
Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.
#171
Banned
Joined: Nov 2019
Location: St Pée sur Nivelle
Posts: 992
Re: Australia's burning
I can only speak for the Gospers Mountain fire, but the commissioner said that even if they'd been able to do all the hazard reduction they wanted, it wouldn't have made much of an impact on that fire. I was reading earlier about one of the fire zones down on the south coast of NSW - they'd had hazard reduction over the winter, then they had the fire front go through and thought they were finally in the clear... then when the wind turned it back on itself, they had fireballs lighting up the crowns of the trees and causing another fire incident. Everything is just so incredibly dry
Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.
Today is going to be long, hot and stressful.
I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.
#172
Re: Australia's burning
Sitting here in France and watching what's going on over there it's easy to come up with solutions. Those fires are unprecedented and uncontrollable. Everything you say is true, The 'Crowning' you mention is a phenomeme well known to Firefighters and is deadly in that the fire rushes across the tops of forests and traps those on the ground.
I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.
I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.
#173
Banned
Joined: Nov 2019
Location: St Pée sur Nivelle
Posts: 992
Re: Australia's burning
Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.
#174
Re: Australia's burning
Its true to say that lightning causes fires but there doesn't have to be a drought at all. Fires, through lightning strikes occur all over the world, they do here, nothing new in that. It is quite obvious though that the fires in Australia are exacerbated, if anything, by poor management of the countryside. That there has been drought conditions for five years should have been a wake up call to both authorities and landowners.
Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.
Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.
#175
Re: Australia's burning
Its true to say that lightning causes fires but there doesn't have to be a drought at all. Fires, through lightning strikes occur all over the world, they do here, nothing new in that. It is quite obvious though that the fires in Australia are exacerbated, if anything, by poor management of the countryside. That there has been drought conditions for five years should have been a wake up call to both authorities and landowners.
Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.
Where I live I am surrounded by trees and bushes. Fortunately the conditions the Australians are experiencing simply won't happen here but should there ever be an extended drought and risk of fire I would have no hesitation in clearing the trees and shrubs. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I have to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen and should have been dealt with by the authorities.
#176
Banned
Joined: Nov 2019
Location: St Pée sur Nivelle
Posts: 992
Re: Australia's burning
I know there has been hazard reduction burns in my area where weather conditions permit, as I'm sure there will have been in other areas. I do think that you are perhaps not appreciating the scale. The following maps are same scale - the first being Saint-Pée-sur-Nivelle whilst the second is from the Victoria emergency site.
#177
Re: Australia's burning, from Fire to Political crisis..
As an outsider many miles from the crisis in Australia, I can only express my deep sympathy for the Australian people at the moment. Just like many other countries, it seems some kind of major incident needs to occur in order to display how incompetent and uncaring the current generation of politicians really are. I watch the news and see the flames and remains of people's homes..it really is quite upsetting. You certainly have a lot of support from around the world and with the well known resilience you will get through it. Let's hope the fatalities are kept to a minimum. Best wishes from the Netherlands.
#178
Re: Australia's burning, from Fire to Political crisis..
As an outsider many miles from the crisis in Australia, I can only express my deep sympathy for the Australian people at the moment. Just like many other countries, it seems some kind of major incident needs to occur in order to display how incompetent and uncaring the current generation of politicians really are. I watch the news and see the flames and remains of people's homes..it really is quite upsetting. You certainly have a lot of support from around the world and with the well known resilience you will get through it. Let's hope the fatalities are kept to a minimum. Best wishes from the Netherlands.
#179
Re: Australia's burning
Sitting here in France and watching what's going on over there it's easy to come up with solutions. Those fires are unprecedented and uncontrollable. Everything you say is true, The 'Crowning' you mention is a phenomeme well known to Firefighters and is deadly in that the fire rushes across the tops of forests and traps those on the ground.
I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.
I still believe that the Australian government will have a lot to answer for once this is over. It takes capitol investment to mitigate this sort of thing and they have been woefully lacking. Not just this government but past governments. It isn't the fault of the draught. Drought doesn't cause fires. Fires are natural but what is going on there is really the fault of man and the failure to plan for fires.
#180
Banned
Joined: Nov 2019
Location: St Pée sur Nivelle
Posts: 992
Re: Australia's burning
Australians are well know for their toughness and straight talking. Admirable traits anyone would agree. Sarcasm on the other hand isn't and says something about the person being sarcastic.