Australia's burning

Old Jan 5th 2020, 8:52 am
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Only in the Barbie could such a subject result in a pissing contest. Good grief.
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Old Jan 5th 2020, 12:04 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by stevenglish1
Only in the Barbie could such a subject result in a pissing contest. Good grief.
True, so can we get this thread back on topic, and please leave all other comments for other threads, this is by far the most disturbing thing happening in the world at the moment, and I'm including Trump and Iran, and Boris Johnson not being heard from for 2 weeks in that. I consider many of the people in Australia as friends, and they have always been supportive to me, and so I feel that this thread should be a support thread to those involved, whether themselves or friends or relatives in harms way, or even seeing so much of the country being destroayed.
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Old Jan 5th 2020, 12:16 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by mikelincs
True, so can we get this thread back on topic, and please leave all other comments for other threads, this is by far the most disturbing thing happening in the world at the moment, and I'm including Trump and Iran, and Boris Johnson not being heard from for 2 weeks in that. I consider many of the people in Australia as friends, and they have always been supportive to me, and so I feel that this thread should be a support thread to those involved, whether themselves or friends or relatives in harms way, or even seeing so much of the country being destroayed.
Spot on. I have a sister in Victoria & although she appears not to be under threat at present it is still worrying, and for those on the ground absolutely terrifying.
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Old Jan 5th 2020, 12:22 pm
  #214  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by BEVS
& you read plenty of really good & interesting stuff too I would hope.

This thread is about the dreadful multiple life threatening ( people, wildlife, flora and fauna) bush fire situations in Australia.

Those with feet on the ground there are commenting and posting how it is for them right now faced with this. Same for all those around them or in other states faced with this.

This isn't a game of ping pong posts which I am sure you will know as an ex-fireman . This is real on the ground stuff going down.

What might make sense in some situations is not sensible or practical in others. To a far lesser degree me and him know this from last summer here in NZ when faced with a bush fire. Himself being a 2nd responder.

Pollyana knows her stuff and more. She bothered to post on this from a front line. Please do read her stuff and digest.
Originally Posted by stevenglish1
Only in the Barbie could such a subject result in a pissing contest. Good grief.
Originally Posted by mikelincs
True, so can we get this thread back on topic, and please leave all other comments for other threads, this is by far the most disturbing thing happening in the world at the moment, and I'm including Trump and Iran, and Boris Johnson not being heard from for 2 weeks in that. I consider many of the people in Australia as friends, and they have always been supportive to me, and so I feel that this thread should be a support thread to those involved, whether themselves or friends or relatives in harms way, or even seeing so much of the country being destroayed.
That's a yes and a well done from me. Just about all of us living in Australia are either in or close to the fire areas, or have family and/or friends who are. All of us are, as Mike has said, watching great swathes of our country burn and the almost unbelievable bravery of the firefighters who face these monster blazes head on. The messages of concern and support have been so great, never underestimate how much a few words of kindness can lift spirits, particularly for those BE members in and around the affected areas.

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Old Jan 5th 2020, 2:22 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
That's a yes and a well done from me. Just about all of us living in Australia are either in or close to the fire areas, or have family and/or friends who are. All of us are, as Mike has said, watching great swathes of our country burn and the almost unbelievable bravery of the firefighters who face these monster blazes head on. The messages of concern and support have been so great, never underestimate how much a few words of kindness can lift spirits, particularly for those BE members in and around the affected areas.
Agreed. a) It's about the people (and animals) facing the fires now and b) this is also incredibly, globally, important as a symptom of the urgency of dealing with climate change. It isn't something that can be deferred any longer.

Best of luck to all affected, and respects to those fighting the fires.
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Old Jan 5th 2020, 11:53 pm
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Default Re: Australia's burning

As an Aussie in the US, it is heartbreaking watching the fires from afar. I hope all of you who are there are staying safe and keeping your spirits up as best you can.

I am trying to balance the horrors by remembering to look at the stories of selflessness and survival. Luckily, the local fauna have more than pulled their weight in photo ops. Have a https://www.theage.com.au/national/nsw/rescued-koala-brings-ray-of-sunshine-after-nightmare-on-fire-ground-20200105-p53p1i.html and
. For any crafters around the world, there is also the obligatory https://www.facebook.com/groups/arfsncrafts/.

ETA: the inline links don't seem to be working (or are they?)
Koala: https://www.theage.com.au/national/n...05-p53p1i.html
Possum:
Knitwear: https://www.facebook.com/groups/arfsncrafts/

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Old Jan 6th 2020, 12:50 am
  #217  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

I wondered what the consensus of opinion on the bushfires would be on BE, so swung by to have a squizz. Found myself nodding my head in agreement with very unlikely members such as Amazulu. We live in South Coast NSW and I've watched a full 80% of the entire Shoalhaven LGA burn, all the way from the start of the fire at Currowan near Batemans Bay up through the massive Morton National Park, through all the beautiful coastal villages like Pebbly Beach, Depot, Tabourie, Conjola, Fishermans Paradise, Pretty Beach, Wandandian, up through he Ettrema wilderness, over to Sussex Inlet and Worrigee, then over the river into Kangaroo Valley and then up across the Southern Highlands. Down the coast Bega's been set to the torch, Mogo's been hammered, Cobargo and Balmoral were virtually destroyed. It has been unforgiving and relentless. Here's a map showing the Shoalhaven boundary line with what's gone up in smoke so far.



And here's an image from the European Sentinel 2 satellite taken on NYE showing the nearby fire-front.



We dodged a bullet here at the weekend - southerly changed the fire's direction and pushed it up to the Highlands instead of across us. That's not to say it won't 'fill in the gaps' of course because as we have been reminded, this is only the start of the traditional fire season. Got good friends who've lost everything - houses, farms, businesses. The situation here was made considerably worse by the large number of tourists who completely ignored all advice to stay away and then found themselves trapped in the coastal villages and caravan parks when the Princes Highway was closed. They consumed the limited resources available to cut-off communities and then pissed and whined about it on social media - it wasn't a good look.

We've heard the same bullshit about the Greens from F&F in the UK - it's such a load of bollocks. Were the Australian Greens also responsible for the Californian fires? The ones in France, Greece, Italy, Spain, and Turkey too? The Siberian wildfires? The UK fires this year? What a joke to suggest that a political party with virtually no official representation could be to blame for this. It's far-right wing propaganda generated by the Murdoch press and its allies and it staggers me that there are people out there stupid enough to believe it. We have always had bushfires and droughts - nobody is arguing to the contrary. What has changed is the intensity and the duration. Places that have never burnt before - literally never - prehistoric Tasmanian bush, small towns and villages untouched by fires in their history, have gone up in flames. This is due to the effects of man-made climate change as identified and covered up by the big oil companies in the 1970s, and as passed off as conspiracy and scientific rorting by pokie-room scientists and the far-right.

In 2007 the Australian State and Territory Governments supported by the government opposition commissioned a full scientific climate change review - the Garnaut Climate Change Review. On page 118 of the review, they made the following observations:

"The lucas et al. study defined two new categories of fire weather: ‘very extreme’ and ‘catastrophic’.7 Of the 26 sites used in the study, only 12 have recorded catastrophic fire weather days since 1973. At a 0.4oC increase in temperature there is little or no change in the number of catastrophic fire weather days. At a 1.0oC increase, catastrophic days occur at 20 sites. For half of these sites, the return period is around 16 years or less. At a 2.9oC increase, 22 sites record catastrophic days. Nineteen of these have a return period of around eight years or less. Seven sites have return periods of three years or less."

And here we are. Australia was warned and its government did nothing about it beyond moving the decimal point to the left on a few emissions targets. It's shameful. And at a time when there's a chance to effect real change, the country finds itself governed by a far-right wing religious halfwit who literally believes in the rapture and is so lacking in empathy that he forces himself on distressed fire victims who have lost everything. It has been left to the communities to come together and save the day and that is what they have done, in the face of utter apathy from the Morrison government. The world is watching and Australia's reputation is now as black as the trunks of the eucalyptus trees.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 2:16 am
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Hutch, thanks for your post. Not ashamed to say it made me cry, for the present and what's been lost, for lost opportunities in the past, and for what may yet happen.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 2:25 am
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by retzie
As an Aussie in the US, it is heartbreaking watching the fires from afar. I hope all of you who are there are staying safe and keeping your spirits up as best you can.

I am trying to balance the horrors by remembering to look at the stories of selflessness and survival. Luckily, the local fauna have more than pulled their weight in photo ops. Have a cute koala and ringtail possum in a fireman's helmet./
Loved this retzie, especially 'balance the horrors by remembering to look at the stories of selflessness and survival'.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 10:42 am
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The pictures on TV and the internet are horrendous, seeing a video of one roadside with hundreds of dead animals on the side, hearing of herds of cattle killed, and the dogs that herded them dead with them as they wouldn't leave them. BBC breakfast had a report showing how random things can be, a whiole load of farm buildings turned to ash on one side of the road, and just over the other side a silo totally untouched and still very shiny. I
ve posted this before but have no worried posting the message again, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE STAY SAFE EVERYONE.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 10:50 am
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by Hutch
I wondered what the consensus of opinion on the bushfires would be on BE, so swung by to have a squizz. Found myself nodding my head in agreement with very unlikely members such as Amazulu. We live in South Coast NSW and I've watched a full 80% of the entire Shoalhaven LGA burn, all the way from the start of the fire at Currowan near Batemans Bay up through the massive Morton National Park, through all the beautiful coastal villages like Pebbly Beach, Depot, Tabourie, Conjola, Fishermans Paradise, Pretty Beach, Wandandian, up through he Ettrema wilderness, over to Sussex Inlet and Worrigee, then over the river into Kangaroo Valley and then up across the Southern Highlands. Down the coast Bega's been set to the torch, Mogo's been hammered, Cobargo and Balmoral were virtually destroyed. It has been unforgiving and relentless. Here's a map showing the Shoalhaven boundary line with what's gone up in smoke so far.



And here's an image from the European Sentinel 2 satellite taken on NYE showing the nearby fire-front.



We dodged a bullet here at the weekend - southerly changed the fire's direction and pushed it up to the Highlands instead of across us. That's not to say it won't 'fill in the gaps' of course because as we have been reminded, this is only the start of the traditional fire season. Got good friends who've lost everything - houses, farms, businesses. The situation here was made considerably worse by the large number of tourists who completely ignored all advice to stay away and then found themselves trapped in the coastal villages and caravan parks when the Princes Highway was closed. They consumed the limited resources available to cut-off communities and then pissed and whined about it on social media - it wasn't a good look.

We've heard the same bullshit about the Greens from F&F in the UK - it's such a load of bollocks. Were the Australian Greens also responsible for the Californian fires? The ones in France, Greece, Italy, Spain, and Turkey too? The Siberian wildfires? The UK fires this year? What a joke to suggest that a political party with virtually no official representation could be to blame for this. It's far-right wing propaganda generated by the Murdoch press and its allies and it staggers me that there are people out there stupid enough to believe it. We have always had bushfires and droughts - nobody is arguing to the contrary. What has changed is the intensity and the duration. Places that have never burnt before - literally never - prehistoric Tasmanian bush, small towns and villages untouched by fires in their history, have gone up in flames. This is due to the effects of man-made climate change as identified and covered up by the big oil companies in the 1970s, and as passed off as conspiracy and scientific rorting by pokie-room scientists and the far-right.

In 2007 the Australian State and Territory Governments supported by the government opposition commissioned a full scientific climate change review - the Garnaut Climate Change Review. On page 118 of the review, they made the following observations:

"The lucas et al. study defined two new categories of fire weather: ‘very extreme’ and ‘catastrophic’.7 Of the 26 sites used in the study, only 12 have recorded catastrophic fire weather days since 1973. At a 0.4oC increase in temperature there is little or no change in the number of catastrophic fire weather days. At a 1.0oC increase, catastrophic days occur at 20 sites. For half of these sites, the return period is around 16 years or less. At a 2.9oC increase, 22 sites record catastrophic days. Nineteen of these have a return period of around eight years or less. Seven sites have return periods of three years or less."

And here we are. Australia was warned and its government did nothing about it beyond moving the decimal point to the left on a few emissions targets. It's shameful. And at a time when there's a chance to effect real change, the country finds itself governed by a far-right wing religious halfwit who literally believes in the rapture and is so lacking in empathy that he forces himself on distressed fire victims who have lost everything. It has been left to the communities to come together and save the day and that is what they have done, in the face of utter apathy from the Morrison government. The world is watching and Australia's reputation is now as black as the trunks of the eucalyptus trees.
I was on holiday in the Shoalhaven/Southern Highlands district just 8 weeks ago as part of a road trip from South Australia. It was my first visit to this region of NSW and I absolutely loved it. Kangaroo Valley was stunning and we did trips to the coast as well, around Huskisson and Hyams Beach. Even then, prior to the trip, I kept a close eye on the RFS page to make sure that no significant fires had started, as we would have cancelled the Shoalhaven part of our trip and headed back.
I was so shocked last weekend when I saw what was happening in the area and was especially concerned for Kangaroo Valley where we were based. Fortunately, the people we stayed with did not lose their home, animals and business but others were not so lucky. Fortunately, the KV township was saved, other townships, sadly were not. It is hard to wrap your head around the shocking changes that have occurred in the last couple of months.

As for your response to our inept Government - well, I couldn't have expressed it any better myself.
Stay safe!

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Old Jan 6th 2020, 11:14 am
  #222  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Tell you what there is one hell of a backlash coming when people realize that they picked the wrong scapegoat in the greens. Nothing worse than people who truly believe something being proven wrong and thats going to happen en masse eventually.

It's actually a bit of a worry because the anger is palpable and I'm not sure how this is all going to end.

How long they will continue in their ignorance is also a bloody worry as well.

I've never seen this country so Angry. Someone made a death threat to the Greens leader just after he'd been on 3AW. at 5pm today.... They cut the caller off but it was clear what he meant, and there are literally 10,000's of people out there like the loony caller on the radio this afternoon.

When people won't believe what someone is clearly saying and even has written as their manifesto and still people call them liars.... Well, it takes some beating. Don't think I've seen a situation like this before.


When this massive boil is lanced there is going to be s.....t everywhere.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 12:24 pm
  #223  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Just to reiterate some of the points above.
Reading various sources as an outsider, apart from the attempt to blame the Greens for lack of safety burns out of season:
  1. The long term drought has meant that hazard reduction burns have been reduced in some areas because of the increased fire risk.
  2. The current fires have gone through areas which have had recent hazard reduction burns without even slowing down.
  3. I have read reports of fires re-burning areas when the wind changed. Charred leaves bursting into flames again. If you consider the current fires as very over the top hazard restriction burns it does show the limited effectiveness of hazard reduction burns.
People posting on social media that over 50% of the fires are due to Green arsonists trying to push their climate change agenda are beneath contempt.
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Old Jan 6th 2020, 3:19 pm
  #224  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Originally Posted by ozzieeagle
Tell you what there is one hell of a backlash coming when people realize that they picked the wrong scapegoat in the greens. Nothing worse than people who truly believe something being proven wrong and thats going to happen en masse eventually.

It's actually a bit of a worry because the anger is palpable and I'm not sure how this is all going to end.

How long they will continue in their ignorance is also a bloody worry as well.

I've never seen this country so Angry. Someone made a death threat to the Greens leader just after he'd been on 3AW. at 5pm today.... They cut the caller off but it was clear what he meant, and there are literally 10,000's of people out there like the loony caller on the radio this afternoon.

When people won't believe what someone is clearly saying and even has written as their manifesto and still people call them liars.... Well, it takes some beating. Don't think I've seen a situation like this before.


When this massive boil is lanced there is going to be s.....t everywhere.
To me the key question will be how many idiots still support Morrison after this. By all rights it should be him and his mum left - such was the litany of crass incompetence demonstrated. Thus if there's still double digit percentage support, those are the idiots who have totally lost contact with reality. In the US they have 30+% of morons that still support trump - so what will it be here? It's a good measure of national insanity.

As for people blaming the greens and threatening them - a better argument against democracy I've not heard.

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Old Jan 6th 2020, 7:04 pm
  #225  
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Default Re: Australia's burning

Just to say from Canada- you are all in our thoughts and prayers- many of my friends and i have sent donations for the various wildlife emergencies and we are praying for rain for you.
There is a new group just set up on facebook this weekend for canadian crafters for rescue and they are busy organizing to send donations of all kinds....
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