Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
Apr 21st 2012, 2:09 pm
#136
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
I disagree. Australian workforce is highly skilled but profiteering ensures that skills are kept offshore. Look at Qantas - skills being sent offshore to make the company 'more competitive' - bollocks - it is a drive to make as much profit as possible at any social cost.
Yes.
US Military build up in Australia - just wait and see how this takes off in the years to come.
Current surveying of Indian Ocean and Australian Islands for US Airforce capabilities.
Strengthening of US Bases in Korea and Japan.
In his address to the Australian parliament, President Obama said he “made a deliberate and strategic decision—as a Pacific nation, the United States will play a larger and long-term role in shaping this region and its future,”.
What people need to understand is and be afraid of, is not the economic expansion of a peaceful Chinese nation, but the economic decline of an aggressive American nation.
Yes.
US Military build up in Australia - just wait and see how this takes off in the years to come.
Current surveying of Indian Ocean and Australian Islands for US Airforce capabilities.
Strengthening of US Bases in Korea and Japan.
In his address to the Australian parliament, President Obama said he “made a deliberate and strategic decision—as a Pacific nation, the United States will play a larger and long-term role in shaping this region and its future,”.
What people need to understand is and be afraid of, is not the economic expansion of a peaceful Chinese nation, but the economic decline of an aggressive American nation.
However, as I am not in charge:
The QANTAS situation is exactly about both profit and competitiveness. The two are the same. You won't be profitable unless you are competitive (you will be bankrupt). If QANTAS can get an engine serviced in Asia for 10% less, then thats where it gets serviced. QANTAS union members would follow just the same logic when servicing their car, or shopping at the supermarket.
As for USA military build up, the presence in Australia of a company of US Marines is nothing new. They are often in QLD at Shoalwater Bay for instance.
The US changes in the Asia Pacific region are more about the redeployment BACK to the Asia Pacific region post Iraq and Afghanistan, and changes following a reduction in Okinawa, than any build up.
Apr 21st 2012, 2:20 pm
#137
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Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
I need to point out at this juncture that I have never been a supporter of free trade, and my posts are littered with dire warnings that the West will have a lowering of its standard of living to account for free trade agreements with less developed countries. For that matter my economics lectures were littered with similar comments....
However, as I am not in charge:
The QANTAS situation is exactly about both profit and competitiveness. The two are the same. You won't be profitable unless you are competitive (you will be bankrupt). If QANTAS can get an engine serviced in Asia for 10% less, then thats where it gets serviced. QANTAS union members would follow just the same logic when servicing their car, or shopping at the supermarket.
As for USA military build up, the presence in Australia of a company of US Marines is nothing new. They are often in QLD at Shoalwater Bay for instance.
The US changes in the Asia Pacific region are more about the redeployment BACK to the Asia Pacific region post Iraq and Afghanistan, and changes following a reduction in Okinawa, than any build up.
However, as I am not in charge:
The QANTAS situation is exactly about both profit and competitiveness. The two are the same. You won't be profitable unless you are competitive (you will be bankrupt). If QANTAS can get an engine serviced in Asia for 10% less, then thats where it gets serviced. QANTAS union members would follow just the same logic when servicing their car, or shopping at the supermarket.
As for USA military build up, the presence in Australia of a company of US Marines is nothing new. They are often in QLD at Shoalwater Bay for instance.
The US changes in the Asia Pacific region are more about the redeployment BACK to the Asia Pacific region post Iraq and Afghanistan, and changes following a reduction in Okinawa, than any build up.
We will agree to disagree: for me you can be competitive and profitable and pay a highly skilled workforce in a country like Australia. What you do is stop paying incredible amounts of the profits to the powerful few at the top and the ones who suck the life out of it through dividends: yes this is a left wing response but basic common sense also. It is not a race to the bottom, to see how little we can pay people but a recognition of a stable and industry efficient workforce that makes a company profitable.
The smokescreen of expensive workers that CEOs complain about is a joke: the BoDs scam companies for billions whilst bandying to shareholders - that is where the money is leaking - not on engineers or pilots.
Look, it's really down to this. All the risk (safety, health, labour etc) is borne by the worker, whilst all the profit is collected by Financial Industry and Boardroom leeches.
Look at Qantas, Look at Greece, Look at the UK.
Did the workers here do anything wrong? No, but they took the pain of the losses of Financial irresponsibility and gambling.
Vive la Révolution!
Apr 21st 2012, 2:54 pm
#138
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
We will agree to disagree: for me you can be competitive and profitable and pay a highly skilled workforce in a country like Australia. What you do is stop paying incredible amounts of the profits to the powerful few at the top and the ones who suck the life out of it through dividends: yes this is a left wing response but basic common sense also. It is not a race to the bottom, to see how little we can pay people but a recognition of a stable and industry efficient workforce that makes a company profitable.
The smokescreen of expensive workers that CEOs complain about is a joke: the BoDs scam companies for billions whilst bandying to shareholders - that is where the money is leaking - not on engineers or pilots.
Look, it's really down to this. All the risk (safety, health, labour etc) is borne by the worker, whilst all the profit is collected by Financial Industry and Boardroom leeches.
Look at Qantas, Look at Greece, Look at the UK.
Did the workers here do anything wrong? No, but they took the pain of the losses of Financial irresponsibility and gambling.
Vive la Révolution!
The smokescreen of expensive workers that CEOs complain about is a joke: the BoDs scam companies for billions whilst bandying to shareholders - that is where the money is leaking - not on engineers or pilots.
Look, it's really down to this. All the risk (safety, health, labour etc) is borne by the worker, whilst all the profit is collected by Financial Industry and Boardroom leeches.
Look at Qantas, Look at Greece, Look at the UK.
Did the workers here do anything wrong? No, but they took the pain of the losses of Financial irresponsibility and gambling.
Vive la Révolution!
If QANTAS engineers think they are entitled to a job, then they have to accept the quid pro quo. When I arrived in Australia clothes were prohibitively expensive, because of import restrictions. Everyone complained about it.
But when Pacific Brands (Berlei, Bonds, Clarks, Dunlop, Everlast, Grosby, Holeproof, Hush Puppies, King Gee, Sheridan, Slazenger and Tontine) moved overseas there was outrage.
Now I can buy suits for a third of what i paid in 1985! Why? Because they are made in China not Melbourne.
Just the same way, I support those QANTAS engineers, but I will pay market rates for my air flights - I am not going to pay a premium to keep them in work. They are going to take pay cuts or lose jobs.
Those QANTAS engineers (and everyone else) can't swing both ways. If you want protection of jobs then the cost of living rises and they have to accept it.
The real issue is that the West did well during the fee trade implementation period. We were happy to buy cheap iPods made in China and keep our safe and well paid jobs. Now the truth hits home and a lot of people don't like it.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:02 pm
#139
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
This is an old ploy. And just remember that Qantas IS profitable.
The real spotlight needs to fall on how much executives get paid like Alan Joyce (sorry to swear) and where the profit (which the workers make for the company) goes to - to shareholders who do not contribute to the company.
This is what is bleeding the company.
Don't confuse what Qantas want you confuse - the competitiveness needs to come from the Executives and the Capital holders - or are we really in a race to the bottom to see how little we can pay people?
Before anyone states that it's only business - no, I'm sorry - it is real people we are dealing with here with real skills, who have invested real time in the company.
The focus needs to shift and the way that needs to happen is to have a media that is not controlled by the same cronies who own the means of production. Only then will the smokescreen be lifted.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:02 pm
#140
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,397
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
>>What people need to understand is and be afraid of, is not the economic expansion of a peaceful Chinese nation, but the economic decline of an aggressive American nation.<<
China has not traditionally been expansionist, but we are not living in traditional times.
China has effectively taken over the economies of several African countries by buying up mineral rights, on top of providing infrastructure "with obligations".
I would not trust the Chinese any further than I can see them. That's not to say we would have a chance if they decide to move in, even if America stands by us.
An inconvenient truth.
China has not traditionally been expansionist, but we are not living in traditional times.
China has effectively taken over the economies of several African countries by buying up mineral rights, on top of providing infrastructure "with obligations".
I would not trust the Chinese any further than I can see them. That's not to say we would have a chance if they decide to move in, even if America stands by us.
An inconvenient truth.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:06 pm
#141
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 423
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
>>What people need to understand is and be afraid of, is not the economic expansion of a peaceful Chinese nation, but the economic decline of an aggressive American nation.<<
China has not traditionally been expansionist, but we are not living in traditional times.
China has effectively taken over the economies of several African countries by buying up mineral rights, on top of providing infrastructure "with obligations".
I would not trust the Chinese any further than I can see them. That's not to say we would have a chance if they decide to move in, even if America stands by us.
An inconvenient truth.
China has not traditionally been expansionist, but we are not living in traditional times.
China has effectively taken over the economies of several African countries by buying up mineral rights, on top of providing infrastructure "with obligations".
I would not trust the Chinese any further than I can see them. That's not to say we would have a chance if they decide to move in, even if America stands by us.
An inconvenient truth.
Just remember that America is controlled by a Corporate Monopoly which has an insatiable appetite for profit: war, death, greed, sovereignty, oil - just way and means to them.
American administrations are merely committees to serve these powerful interest groups.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:07 pm
#142
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
>>What people need to understand is and be afraid of, is not the economic expansion of a peaceful Chinese nation, but the economic decline of an aggressive American nation.<<
China has not traditionally been expansionist, but we are not living in traditional times.
China has effectively taken over the economies of several African countries by buying up mineral rights, on top of providing infrastructure "with obligations".
I would not trust the Chinese any further than I can see them. That's not to say we would have a chance if they decide to move in, even if America stands by us. I think it's only a matter of time before the Chinese become (more) expansionist.
An inconvenient truth.
China has not traditionally been expansionist, but we are not living in traditional times.
China has effectively taken over the economies of several African countries by buying up mineral rights, on top of providing infrastructure "with obligations".
I would not trust the Chinese any further than I can see them. That's not to say we would have a chance if they decide to move in, even if America stands by us. I think it's only a matter of time before the Chinese become (more) expansionist.
An inconvenient truth.
Last edited by Turban Explorer; Apr 21st 2012 at 3:13 pm.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:08 pm
#143
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
But I think you have focused on what Qantas Management what you to focus on.. the workers.
This is an old ploy.
The real spotlight needs to fall on how much executives get paid like Alan Joyce (sorry to swear) and where the profit (which the workers make for the company) goes to - to shareholders who do not contribute to the company.
This is what is bleeding the company.
Don't confuse what Qantas want you confuse - the competitiveness needs to come from the Executives and the Capital holders - or are we really in a race to the bottom to see how little we can pay people?
Before anyone states that it's only business - no, I'm sorry - it is real people we are dealing with here with real skills, who have invested real time in the company.
The focus needs to shift and the way that needs to happen is to have a media that is not controlled by the same cronies who own the means of production. Only then will the smokescreen be lifted.
This is an old ploy.
The real spotlight needs to fall on how much executives get paid like Alan Joyce (sorry to swear) and where the profit (which the workers make for the company) goes to - to shareholders who do not contribute to the company.
This is what is bleeding the company.
Don't confuse what Qantas want you confuse - the competitiveness needs to come from the Executives and the Capital holders - or are we really in a race to the bottom to see how little we can pay people?
Before anyone states that it's only business - no, I'm sorry - it is real people we are dealing with here with real skills, who have invested real time in the company.
The focus needs to shift and the way that needs to happen is to have a media that is not controlled by the same cronies who own the means of production. Only then will the smokescreen be lifted.
Competitiveness comes from me. I fly the best bang for buck that i can find, and I flew 68,000miles in just over the last 12 months.
I won't fly QANTAS because of the age discrimination policies relating to cabin staff, and the attitude of those staff. An attitude driven by heavy unionism and a job for life. Customers come a far second to the Cabin staff.
I don't want some granny telling me I can't have a drink because cabin services has closed so she can take her mandated nap. I am the bloody customer.
QANTAS cabin crew are the rudest, most arrogant bunch i have ever met.
Give me Singapore airlines, or Emirates (who use contract cabin crew).
Apr 21st 2012, 3:13 pm
#144
Daffyd Duck
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Paradise
Posts: 5,636
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
it's amazing how many people think only oz will be f--ked up if china goes bust. 
they don't realise the paper-money factories are much more vulnerable. at least oz can sell something tangible, not only essential minerals and cheap energy but also wheat, beef, milk etc.
they don't realise the paper-money factories are much more vulnerable. at least oz can sell something tangible, not only essential minerals and cheap energy but also wheat, beef, milk etc.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:22 pm
#145
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 423
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
it's amazing how many people think only oz will be f--ked up if china goes bust. they don't realise the paper-money factories are much more vulnerable. at least oz can sell something tangible, not only essential minerals and cheap energy but also wheat, beef, milk etc.
they don't realise the paper-money factories are much more vulnerable. at least oz can sell something tangible, not only essential minerals and cheap energy but also wheat, beef, milk etc.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:23 pm
#146
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
it's amazing how many people think only oz will be f--ked up if china goes bust. they don't realise the paper-money factories are much more vulnerable. at least oz can sell something tangible, not only essential minerals and cheap energy but also wheat, beef, milk etc.
they don't realise the paper-money factories are much more vulnerable. at least oz can sell something tangible, not only essential minerals and cheap energy but also wheat, beef, milk etc.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:25 pm
#147
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
... and yet we sell uranium to them (because it's all about the money).
Shameful.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:27 pm
#148
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,603
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
I disagree
Its more a lazy workforce relying on luck, with an attitude of mine mine mine.
At least after the copper and coal boom it can settle down to harvest its tall poppies.
In 20 years I have yet to find signs of a skilled workforce other than those focused on gaming(gambling), Centrelink legislation. Oh forgot bringing thongs and trackies to the fashion high streets of dubbo and wagga wagga.
Its more a lazy workforce relying on luck, with an attitude of mine mine mine.
At least after the copper and coal boom it can settle down to harvest its tall poppies.
In 20 years I have yet to find signs of a skilled workforce other than those focused on gaming(gambling), Centrelink legislation. Oh forgot bringing thongs and trackies to the fashion high streets of dubbo and wagga wagga.
Apr 21st 2012, 3:28 pm
#149
Possum. Amiculum. Latrina
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Footloose
Posts: 3,427
Re: Australia has the strongest economy in the developed world
