Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Australia > The Barbie
Reload this Page >

Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Old Jun 16th 2011, 2:46 pm
  #106  
Forum Regular
 
exsquaddie's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 120
exsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to all
Default Re: Women on the front-line in Afghanistan?

In answer to the OP they already ARE serving on the front line. There are no ‘front lines’ anymore in counter insurgency/terrorism operations as soon you step off the aircraft in theatre you are there, as soon as you step out of the patrol base the threat is coming in at you from 360 degrees’. We had female clerks, medics, intelligence analysts etc accompanying us on patrols in Basra, Al Amara etc and when under contact reacted and performed brilliantly. For the big strike, public order and clearance operations that involved some intense house to house fighting especially during the ‘surge’ they were mostly held in reserve.

Women ARE capable of handling the trauma and pain of combat closing and engaging with the enemy (they also make excellent snipers because of their ability to control the breathing as required in child birth look at the Russian women snipers in WW 2).

HOWEVER after 12 years in the infantry my self as a tom, section commander, platoon 2ic trying to completely integrate Women into the Infantry Rifle Companies as combat troops would simply NOT work. It comes down to bio mechanics plain and simple men are stronger than women, physical stamina the ability to carry kit then fight. It goes back to the politically incorrect simple notion that the strongest wins. If for the sake of sexual equality you want total integration at the tactical level then you are going to lose that capability and edge over a possible enemy and the much vaunted Australian Infantry will lose out. Will never be able to win at arguments with Mrs exsquaddie however! (she is a lawyer also)

Last edited by exsquaddie; Jun 16th 2011 at 2:49 pm.
exsquaddie is offline  
Old Jun 16th 2011, 3:29 pm
  #107  
Not allowed opinions.
 
slapphead_otool's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
slapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond reputeslapphead_otool has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Women on the front-line in Afghanistan?

It all depends on what you are doing with your troops.

At the moment we don't really do any offensive operations, although we like to fool ourselves into thinking so. Most of what we are doing is UN type peacekeeping - even in Afghanistan. This is mainly due to the fourth generation asymmetric warfare conducted by our opponents. Fire a few rounds, then wander off and claim to be a shepherd. Hid in house full of women and children and fire a quick round off, and then go back to dinner.

We are not engaging in warfare, and I am not sure even the men in the ADF could handle it these days.

War is a disgusting horrible dreadful business. We clean it up and paint pretty pictures of gallantry. In fact when the opponents close it becomes a fight to the death, which is often simply a test of physical strength and aggression as men kill each other to survive.

I am not sure women should be involved. I am certain that I shouldn't be.
slapphead_otool is offline  
Old Jun 16th 2011, 5:19 pm
  #108  
Forum Regular
 
exsquaddie's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 120
exsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to allexsquaddie is a name known to all
Default Re: Women on the front-line in Afghanistan?

You got in one slappy, the zulu bloke touched on it also.

This whole issue is just a knee jerk reaction by Labor government to the ADF scandals (the scandals are quite tame compared with the Brits, anyone remember Cyprus and the Green Jackets?) Steven Smith is proving himself to be just as much of a tool as Geoff Hoon and Des Brown were with the MOD in handling the military. They DO NOT understand how the Armed Forces are suppose to function. There is a very Civilianised feel with Aus Army from what I've seen (bro-in-law is currently serving). There are definitely cultural differences between the Aus and Brit Armies more so because Australia(and God forbid it ever will) has never had a terrorist attack on its shores. Whilst in Blighty we had 30 years of PIRA trying to blow us up. That shows in the security measures over here, Private unarmed civilian Gate Guards anyone?

ADF's deployment to the Ghan says it all. Its al ways been a token deployment with its arms tied behind its back in terms of what the diggers can actually do. They are there to train and mentor ANA not there for offensive ops. The SASR and Commandos are conducting small Scale strike ops in Oruzgan and Helmand but they are nothing different from what the regular British, American infantry are performing on a much bigger scale or what the Canadians did. (Am not going to talk about the Germans or French!).

Me thinks Canberra likes the small scale special forces because they can keep a hold on the media reporting. The Aus media over exposure of the SASR I find very bizarre too, the VC's awarded were well deserved dont get me wrong BUT I do get the feeling that its all carefully staged managed and Gillard and co are using the 'ANZAC spirit' to stop any real debate on why they are there.

The contact that involved 6RAR a few months ago:

http://inside.org.au/the-army%E2%80%...y-the-subtext/

is telling also. They were pretty much unable to it follow up ( A big NO-NO in counter insurgency) and find the firing point, as they had a lack of air cover, lack of ammo, and no reserve. I suspect the officers and SNCO's were fuming. In Iraq when I visited 14th Light Horse there were quite a few who wanted to transfer to us officers included. We were all like sod that you lot get tax free money when you deploy!!

Taking nothing away from the Diggers they are pleasure to work with but their political masters seem rather unsure of what they want to do with them.
Dare I say it.... It might even be the time for Australia to get out.

Last edited by exsquaddie; Jun 16th 2011 at 5:23 pm.
exsquaddie is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 2:59 am
  #109  
Banned
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Durham Region Extension
Posts: 3,342
ultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond reputeultrarunner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Source: GlobalPost

Australian women will be allowed to serve in frontline combat roles, including with special forces units in Afghanistan, provided they meet the physical and psychological requirements, the government announced Tuesday.

Australia, a close U.S. ally, will join Canada, Denmark, New Zealand and Israel to open all combat roles to female soldiers, the Independent reports. Britain and the US exclude women from dedicated infantry roles.

Australia already allows women to serve on submarines, as air force jet fighter pilots and as drone aircraft operators, but women are barred from serving as front-line infantry soldiers, navy clearance divers, mine-disposal experts and airfield guards.

Although the ban will be lifted immediately, the army has five years to implement new tests and train army doctors to operate on women, News24 reports.

Read more: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/d...
ultrarunner is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 3:12 am
  #110  
Moderαtor Emeritus
 
iaink's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,771
iaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

<moved to lounge> This isnt really relevant to Canada
iaink is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 3:15 am
  #111  
Life goes on.
 
Uncle Ebenezer's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 23,661
Uncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Ebenezer has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Originally Posted by ultrarunner
Source: GlobalPost

Australian women will be allowed to serve in frontline combat roles, including with special forces units in Afghanistan, provided they meet the physical and psychological requirements, the government announced Tuesday.

Australia, a close U.S. ally, will join Canada, Denmark, New Zealand and Israel to open all combat roles to female soldiers, the Independent reports. Britain and the US exclude women from dedicated infantry roles.

Australia already allows women to serve on submarines, as air force jet fighter pilots and as drone aircraft operators, but women are barred from serving as front-line infantry soldiers, navy clearance divers, mine-disposal experts and airfield guards.

Although the ban will be lifted immediately, the army has five years to implement new tests and train army doctors to operate on women, News24 reports.

Read more: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches...ost-blogs/d...
To be honest, most of the Australian women I've seen make Ozzie blokes look effeminate. A long overdue move, imo.
Uncle Ebenezer is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 4:18 am
  #112  
 
gruffbrown's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 30,102
gruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond reputegruffbrown has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Originally Posted by iaink
<moved to lounge> This isnt really relevant to Canada
Yeah thanks iain, how about the barbie?
gruffbrown is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 4:27 am
  #113  
Moderαtor Emeritus
 
iaink's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Location: Upstate South Carolina
Posts: 30,771
iaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond reputeiaink has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Originally Posted by gruffbrown
Yeah thanks iain, how about the barbie?
Didnt think of that, and I have no super powers in here to move it now
iaink is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 5:16 am
  #114  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
Jerseygirl's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 88,096
Jerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond reputeJerseygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Originally Posted by iaink
Didnt think of that, and I have no super powers in here to move it now
I do.
Jerseygirl is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 6:08 am
  #115  
Home and Happy
Thread Starter
 
Pollyana's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,849
Pollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
I do.
And I can merge it with the existing thread Teamwork or what!!
Pollyana is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 9:21 am
  #116  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Bermudashorts's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 14,284
Bermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond reputeBermudashorts has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Women on the front-line in Afghanistan?

I think women should not be on the front line, for the reasons stated below. It is just polical correctness taken too far, men are stronger than women and always will be.


Originally Posted by exsquaddie
HOWEVER after 12 years in the infantry my self as a tom, section commander, platoon 2ic trying to completely integrate Women into the Infantry Rifle Companies as combat troops would simply NOT work. It comes down to bio mechanics plain and simple men are stronger than women, physical stamina the ability to carry kit then fight. It goes back to the politically incorrect simple notion that the strongest wins. If for the sake of sexual equality you want total integration at the tactical level then you are going to lose that capability and edge over a possible enemy and the much vaunted Australian Infantry will lose out. Will never be able to win at arguments with Mrs exsquaddie however! (she is a lawyer also)
Bermudashorts is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 10:12 am
  #117  
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,555
IvanM is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

The women who pass the same tests as the blokes should be in. If the tests are too weak then there is a bigger unrelated problem. The rest is guff.
IvanM is offline  
Old Sep 29th 2011, 12:30 pm
  #118  
Proudly Deplorable
 
Amazulu's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2003
Location: Alloha snack bar
Posts: 24,246
Amazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond reputeAmazulu has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Australia to Allow Women to fight in the front line and special forces

Soldiers, unit colleagues of these women that make it through, are going to die unnecessarily because of this decision.
Amazulu is offline  
Old Sep 30th 2011, 9:58 pm
  #119  
Account Closed
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 26,319
DaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond reputeDaveLovesDee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Women on the front-line in Afghanistan?

Originally Posted by Deancm_MKII
There's a big difference between the nursing corps and infantry.
In that case, take all the guys out of nursing and put them in the infantry. Oh wait, that's sexist!

If I needed help, I couldn't give a damn whether the soldier, doctor, paramedic or police officer was male or female, as long as they are trained and qualified in whatever they are needed for. On a battlefield, the front line can change rapidly, and whether one is an infantryman, medic or any other role everyone is a soldier first and trained to use a weapon. No-one is forcing women to become infantry, itll be their choice.
DaveLovesDee is offline  
Old Oct 5th 2011, 10:22 am
  #120  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
BadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond reputeBadgeIsBack has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Women on the front-line in Afghanistan?

Ex squaddie makes some great comments as does Slappy and Zulu.

It's not just the question of frontline : it's the type of ops. Patrolling through a town from and back to a base after contact is different to weeks of protracted carrying kit and fighting through positions. This is partly why the Israeli model works.

And also, I think people might be surprised to realise that just because you can pass a test doesn't mean that can translate to infantry ops. A woman can pass a Combat Fitness Test without being an Amazon.

Very few women pass the tests for say Parachute Regiment or Royal Marines - token numbers - and often they struggle on exercise. I'll never forget being told - 'P' company is not the hardest thing you will do - it's a batallion drop. And there was a comment - unverified - that women cannot undertake military parachuting - with weight - their pelvises can't take it.

As for Australian SF - and observations of ADF - the media and this country rightly are proud of the fact that a small force modeled on the commonwealth model contribute so well in theatre. It's one of the areas where by a small country can be seen to be punching above it's weight - itself the very essence of SF.
BadgeIsBack is offline  

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.