Originally Posted by ponyrama

OMFG! I hope that post was just to get a reaction and not a true expression of how you feel about fellow members of the human race.

Originally Posted by ABCDiamond

You should hear how some of the British people talk about Australians, also members of the human race

Originally Posted by Julzi

Hi, I live in the suburbs of Darwin and there are hundreds of aboriginies here. From what I have seen, and this is in my opinion, the majority of them are uneducated and have a long way to go when it comes to issues of self-respect, self-esteem and taking care of themselves.

Originally Posted by ponyrama

Do you not mean "that is how they are viewed here by some people"?

Its not my view, and not the view of most of my work colleagues and many people I have come into contact with since living here. It does however appear to be the view of those people who have chosen not to learn about aboriginal culture nor to understand how and why the current social issues referred to in this post came to be.

I have been very lucky that through my work with the very people that society complains about, I have been able to gain some insight into the culture and beliefs of Aboriginal people and what went wrong from "their" perspective. What I learned most of all is that all it takes to break through the misunderstanding is to respect everyone as an individual, accept each other for our differences, acknowledge that we have all made mistakes, past present or forgotten, and endeavour to not repeat the same.

We, and I mean the collective we, are all part of the problem and we all need to be part of the solution. Ignorance is bliss, but if you know the ship is sinking shouldnt you be doing something about it?

Originally Posted by ponyrama

I think you are missing the point! Of course no one condones the committing of any heinous crime, whoever they are or wherever they are from. But.......we stole their land. We took away their right to live from the land and exist in a culture that was based on kinship and family. We ruined it. We forced upon them things that they didnt want, need or understand and then we punished them when they did not conform to our way of doing things. We told them they needed running water and electricty but did not educate them or provide access to jobs or training so they could pay for it themselves. We said they had to live in houses, not on the land as they were used to, and then condemned them when because we have no comprehension of what "family" means for Aboriginal people, the house which wasnt big enough anyway, gets trashed. We thought we were doing the right things taking their children away but we stole their ability to pass on their cultural beliefs and stories, and then we condemn them again when they retaliate with frustration and anger.

What gave us the right? Who are we to decide how these beautiful people, who are very aware of the issues amongst their own communities, who had a law and order system better and more effective than any we can ever dream of, who are we to decide how they should live their lives? But that is what we did, whether intentionally or in ignorance and I feel guilty, I am ashamed, and I am sorry for what colonisation and westernisation has done to the Aboriginal people in this country. And anyone who now takes advantage of what this wonderful country has to offer should at least acknowledge that our ancestors whether it be 200 years ago or 20 years ago - got it wrong!

Originally Posted by TiddlyPom

Also, I see that the Aus army has become the largest employer of aboriginal men up there and is driving a project for the trained guys to pass on their skills to younger men, which is really working well.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

OK, so it's not your view and it's not the view of the people you work with... who just happen to work with Aboriginal people for a living... what a shock. Well I would maintain that it IS the view of the majority of the peoples of Australia.
When people meet on an individual level they can usually get along.. communities don't meet on an individual level, and the amount of mistrust between the white and aboriginal communities in Australia, is so deep, that I doubt it will ever be resolved.

As for us all being part of the problem/solution... sorry but that's PC bullshit. I have no input into the problem of some petrol drinking piss artist up in the NT and nor do I want to.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

Sentimental claptrap... in a purely evolutionary sense they had it coming.

If you are to believe their stories they have been here for 40,000 years. In that time the peak of their technical achievements was stick you can't throw away. Somebody 'better' turned up and displaced them. It's the way of world... and it ALWAYS will be.

As for our ancestors 'getting it wrong', that's your view based on your modern sensibilities. It's not how they saw it and your view now is a classic example of revisionist history.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

So changing them to be more like 'us'?

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

Somebody 'better' turned up and displaced them. It's the way of world... and it ALWAYS will be.

Originally Posted by ponyrama

Did a totally bona fide survey did you? If we are not all part of the problem, and therefore part of the solution, what are we? Bystanders? Passers by? Happy to watch the dog drown because you dont wanna get your your new moleskins wet? Well, its not your dog anyway so I guess it doesnt matter does it. You're right, it wont be solved if people like yourself with the opinion stated as above, remain entrenched in the same narrow mindset that you have articulated so well. Well done!

Originally Posted by TiddlyPom

*gasp* Are.... *you* that better person?

Originally Posted by TiddlyPom

Giving them skills so they can get jobs, trying to raise self esteem in young men who have a large suicide rate, and generally helping them move out of the poverty trap.
If that's 'like us' then maybe. But I know plenty of non aboriginal violent drug addicted no-hopers on the dole too. So probably not.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

I'm all in favour of it... it will improve their lot tremendously... but it will mean that they will become more and more like 'us'. Like it or not.

Originally Posted by iamthecreaturefromuranus

Nope.. I wasn't here 200 years ago. You either advance, or you get displaced. They didn't advance in 40,000 years... and the nasty men with guns came and took it all away from them.