Why the difference...
Jun 14th 2008, 5:54 am
#31
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 3,521
Re: Why the difference...
I'm not sure what you are saying here
Are you saying people who complain are in lower paid jobs and this is why they complain? I accept there may be some who fall into this category and I also accept there may be some where social variables / pressures may make some unhappy however working in "poor jobs" or "highly process orientated" roles [your words] is not the factor
I happen to know highly paid, professionals [I am one of them
] who find fault with certain things Australian so it's not exclusive to certain jobs.
Even though I am self employed, I speak out about the shite work ethics in Australia, the rife sexism and rife racism that had been eradicated in the main since 1980's in UK which still exists in Australia to a much higher degree. I have witnessed this working with other professionals who also speak out about the same thing in order to not sweep it under the carpet, but to address it openly. That doesn't make me unhappy living in Aus - but it does make me think there are some things needed to be faced up to and addressed. This is after all how the UK changed. Of course there are always going to be bigots but in the main things change if you stand up to be counted and accept not all things are rosy in the garden.
Working in "poor" or "highly process orientated" jobs is not a pre-requisite for unhappiness in Australia. People are smarter than that and working in non professional jobs doesn't make people any less smart or unhappy in life. I have many non professional friends who are some of the smartest, funniest people I know - some love it here, some don't and all see the good and bad in Aus. People can be negative about Aus at times for many reasons but it doesn't necessarily mean they don't like living in Australia either.
Regardless as to what job people have, they reserve the right to love it in Aus whilst stating its faults too. It is their opinion which may be different from yours.
Are you saying people who complain are in lower paid jobs and this is why they complain? I accept there may be some who fall into this category and I also accept there may be some where social variables / pressures may make some unhappy however working in "poor jobs" or "highly process orientated" roles [your words] is not the factor
I happen to know highly paid, professionals [I am one of them
] who find fault with certain things Australian so it's not exclusive to certain jobs.Even though I am self employed, I speak out about the shite work ethics in Australia, the rife sexism and rife racism that had been eradicated in the main since 1980's in UK which still exists in Australia to a much higher degree. I have witnessed this working with other professionals who also speak out about the same thing in order to not sweep it under the carpet, but to address it openly. That doesn't make me unhappy living in Aus - but it does make me think there are some things needed to be faced up to and addressed. This is after all how the UK changed. Of course there are always going to be bigots but in the main things change if you stand up to be counted and accept not all things are rosy in the garden.
Working in "poor" or "highly process orientated" jobs is not a pre-requisite for unhappiness in Australia. People are smarter than that and working in non professional jobs doesn't make people any less smart or unhappy in life. I have many non professional friends who are some of the smartest, funniest people I know - some love it here, some don't and all see the good and bad in Aus. People can be negative about Aus at times for many reasons but it doesn't necessarily mean they don't like living in Australia either.
Regardless as to what job people have, they reserve the right to love it in Aus whilst stating its faults too. It is their opinion which may be different from yours.
Jun 14th 2008, 6:05 am
#32
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Why the difference...
I'm not sure what you are saying here
Are you saying people who complain are in lower paid jobs and this is why they complain? I accept there may be some who fall into this category and I also accept there may be some where social variables / pressures may make some unhappy however working in "poor jobs" or "highly process orientated" roles [your words] is not the factor
Are you saying people who complain are in lower paid jobs and this is why they complain? I accept there may be some who fall into this category and I also accept there may be some where social variables / pressures may make some unhappy however working in "poor jobs" or "highly process orientated" roles [your words] is not the factor
The work situation is key I think....
Last edited by BadgeIsBack; Jun 14th 2008 at 6:08 am.
Jun 14th 2008, 6:29 am
#33
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Why the difference...
Definitely attitude.
I started enjoying the UK a lot more when I made an effort to change the way I viewed it.
Now I'm about to buy a return train ticket from Walsall to Hove, and the fact that it's £164 doesn't faze me at all. I've come to accept that this is how things are done over here.
I started enjoying the UK a lot more when I made an effort to change the way I viewed it.
Now I'm about to buy a return train ticket from Walsall to Hove, and the fact that it's £164 doesn't faze me at all. I've come to accept that this is how things are done over here.
Last edited by Vash the Stampede; Jun 14th 2008 at 6:31 am.
Jun 14th 2008, 6:53 am
#34
Australia's Doorman
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: The Shoalhaven, New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 11,056
Re: Why the difference...
Definitely attitude.
I started enjoying the UK a lot more when I made an effort to change the way I viewed it.
Now I'm about to buy a return train ticket from Walsall to Hove, and the fact that it's £164 doesn't faze me at all. I've come to accept that this is how things are done over here.
I started enjoying the UK a lot more when I made an effort to change the way I viewed it.
Now I'm about to buy a return train ticket from Walsall to Hove, and the fact that it's £164 doesn't faze me at all. I've come to accept that this is how things are done over here.
Jun 14th 2008, 7:28 am
#35
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Why the difference...
Jun 14th 2008, 7:37 am
#36
Australia's Doorman
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: The Shoalhaven, New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 11,056
Re: Why the difference...
Digging everything except the 8800GT ... seems a weak point in an otherwise high end load-out.
Jun 14th 2008, 7:52 am
#37
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Why the difference...
The 8800GT will set me back £118, while next step up (a GTS or GTX) starts at £146 for the GTS and £211 for the GTS. The only thing the GTS can offer me is an extra 16 stream processors for an additional £28. The GTX offers 16 extra stream processors and another 256Mb, but I'd pay an additional £93 for the privilege.
Since I won't be running a Crossfire setup and I'm not playing Crysis (or anything equivalent), I don't think it's worth the money. World of Warcraft is my most demanding game, and the 8800 will eat it for breakfast (I'm currently using a 512Mb Radeon HD 2600 Pro).
I did consider the 9600 series, but it's a bit of a swiz; fewer stream processors than the 8800, with clock speeds no higher than I could achieve with a stock or slightly overclocked 8800.
The next generation cards (9800) start at around £188, which is reasonably good value but far more than I can afford to spend at this stage.
Currently, the only things left for me to buy are the motherboard, cpu and graphics card. I'll be leaving the card last, since I can stay with the Radeon for a good while yet. If prices come in the meantime, I'll consider a 9800. If not, I'll just grab the 8800.
Last edited by Vash the Stampede; Jun 14th 2008 at 7:55 am.
Jun 14th 2008, 8:19 am
#38
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Why the difference...
I look on it as a business opportunity. I've got several competitors in my immediate area (on-site pc tech support) and I've heard some truly amazing things about one guy who lives/works in the same town as me. The petrol station phoned him up on a Saturday because their main till machine had gone down and he said (in a pissed off voice), "My business hours are 9 to 5 monday to friday. Kindly call me back on Monday." Another customer of his was having email issues and phoned him up for help and he said, "If you haven't got to grips with something as simple as email, I suggest you take up a new hobby." 
Too funny. But in both cases those people are now my customers, so long may he continue being shite ...
Too funny. But in both cases those people are now my customers, so long may he continue being shite ... Yep, you're spot on Hutch. That's what I do too. I offer a service outside of the *norm* and some things that I suggest which are second nature to management practices in Europe and UK are seen as *revolutionary* here.
The problem I see is where the work ethics mindset needs to change and to do this we have to admit that it exists. I remember in the early 80's where corporations in UK wouldn't address racism, sexism, bullying and harassment and a plethora of bad management practices. They paid lip service to it for various reasons. In the main a) no one would admit these things were happening b) to admit would be seen as weak and open to litigation and c) no one knew how to manage these bad practices. However some 20+years later the UK finally moved on. I'm not saying UK work ethics are perfect however no longer is it acceptable to treat the workforce like crap, swapping and changing contractual obligations to suit business. Nowadays a business has to explain itself and is accountable. This measn in the main companies treat people / the workforce with value and respect and the relationship between an employer & employee is one of joint venture. A company pays its people to turn up and do a good job and for this it is expected to manage with respect and involve staff in decision making. No longer is someone expected to put up with racism, sexism, harassment and bullying. I'm not saying UK has got it 100% right, but the law sure as hell makes sure organisations are held accountable and suffer the consequences if they get it wrong with heavy fines and their name set in case law for prosperity if they get it wrong.
In Aus, it's like the UK was before the change. The workforce is deemed as a disposable asset. The more we speak up against this mentality, the more big business will listen. And the government are the worst culprits. Those of us who can make a difference, should make a difference rather than keep schtum and pretend it isn't happening and Aus is utopia. This is also important when new migrants give everything up to come here, especially if they fall within the groups mentioned.
Keep doing the right things Hutch and good luck in your business
Jun 14th 2008, 8:49 am
#39
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Why the difference...
You can't judge by speaking to an exclusive / small sample size of undergrads on a train. The "poor sods on the train" do not represent a whole marketing population. This is not a great sample in statistical terms
You could be right
Jun 14th 2008, 9:00 am
#40
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Jun 14th 2008, 9:07 am
#41
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Why the difference...
Definitely attitude.
I started enjoying the UK a lot more when I made an effort to change the way I viewed it.
Now I'm about to buy a return train ticket from Walsall to Hove, and the fact that it's £164 doesn't faze me at all. I've come to accept that this is how things are done over here.
I started enjoying the UK a lot more when I made an effort to change the way I viewed it.
Now I'm about to buy a return train ticket from Walsall to Hove, and the fact that it's £164 doesn't faze me at all. I've come to accept that this is how things are done over here.
I love it in Australia but don't accept crap work ethics should be accepted.
You don't make a difference by being apathetic and accepting status quo.
Jun 14th 2008, 9:26 am
#42
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Why the difference...
Jun 14th 2008, 9:26 am
#43
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia, but home to EU in 2009 for good!
Posts: 514
Re: Why the difference...
I think the differences are because there are 2 different groups of people that move to Australia.
Group 1:
The un-happy people out here are ones who wanted more out of life, who expected more, who have high goals and dreams and who aim high, people who want to come 1st and not put up with having 2nd best. These people usually leave, but in a lot of instances cant (it’s harder to go back once you have given up everything), so the longer they stay here un-happy, the more they dislike the place, the more they find other things you dislike about the place. The more they whinge about things.
Group 2:
The happy people out here are ones who put up and take just what’s given to them (no matter how bad), they lack balls and are happy to just settle with what they have. These people are happy to settle for 2nd best. They don’t want much out of life and aim for the generic “aussie dream”. But as long as they’re happy with that, as long as they are happy to go through life just settling for what’s here, then it’s all good and good luck to them.
That’s my opinion.
Mikey
Group 1:
The un-happy people out here are ones who wanted more out of life, who expected more, who have high goals and dreams and who aim high, people who want to come 1st and not put up with having 2nd best. These people usually leave, but in a lot of instances cant (it’s harder to go back once you have given up everything), so the longer they stay here un-happy, the more they dislike the place, the more they find other things you dislike about the place. The more they whinge about things.
Group 2:
The happy people out here are ones who put up and take just what’s given to them (no matter how bad), they lack balls and are happy to just settle with what they have. These people are happy to settle for 2nd best. They don’t want much out of life and aim for the generic “aussie dream”. But as long as they’re happy with that, as long as they are happy to go through life just settling for what’s here, then it’s all good and good luck to them.
That’s my opinion.
Mikey
Jun 14th 2008, 10:18 am
#44
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Fantasy Island....
Posts: 12,616
Re: Why the difference...
I think the differences are because there are 2 different groups of people that move to Australia.
Group 1:
The un-happy people out here are ones who wanted more out of life, who expected more, who have high goals and dreams and who aim high, people who want to come 1st and not put up with having 2nd best. These people usually leave, but in a lot of instances cant (it’s harder to go back once you have given up everything), so the longer they stay here un-happy, the more they dislike the place, the more they find other things you dislike about the place. The more they whinge about things.
Group 2:
The happy people out here are ones who put up and take just what’s given to them (no matter how bad), they lack balls and are happy to just settle with what they have. These people are happy to settle for 2nd best. They don’t want much out of life and aim for the generic “aussie dream”. But as long as they’re happy with that, as long as they are happy to go through life just settling for what’s here, then it’s all good and good luck to them.
That’s my opinion.
Mikey
Group 1:
The un-happy people out here are ones who wanted more out of life, who expected more, who have high goals and dreams and who aim high, people who want to come 1st and not put up with having 2nd best. These people usually leave, but in a lot of instances cant (it’s harder to go back once you have given up everything), so the longer they stay here un-happy, the more they dislike the place, the more they find other things you dislike about the place. The more they whinge about things.
Group 2:
The happy people out here are ones who put up and take just what’s given to them (no matter how bad), they lack balls and are happy to just settle with what they have. These people are happy to settle for 2nd best. They don’t want much out of life and aim for the generic “aussie dream”. But as long as they’re happy with that, as long as they are happy to go through life just settling for what’s here, then it’s all good and good luck to them.
That’s my opinion.
Mikey
Group 3:
The people who recognise Aussie paths aren't paved with gold, that although an excellent move, Aus still has its faults. They have balanced views and are happy to share the good and not so good about Australia. Their views are not polarised in the extreme but more about seeing the good, the bad and the ugly and they are happy to share this with others.
Last edited by sonlymewalter; Jun 14th 2008 at 10:20 am.
Jun 14th 2008, 11:18 am
#45
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,316
Re: Why the difference...
Okay.
As someone who is happy with his life in Aus and with no desire to return to the UK I obviously have no balls.
Could someone explain what 2nd best stuff and problems I'm putting up with here that I didn't have to put up with in the UK?
I'll give you pubs.
As someone who is happy with his life in Aus and with no desire to return to the UK I obviously have no balls.
Could someone explain what 2nd best stuff and problems I'm putting up with here that I didn't have to put up with in the UK?
I'll give you pubs.