Grayling

Agree

But first you need some money to invest.

As I said the experience will be different for those who are able to bring a large amount of money with them such as from a house sale in the UK or elsewhere.

Those on average incomes with a mortgage may well struggle to live never mind to invest (even in their own pension).

G

ozzieeagle

Surely, the struggle would be even greater in the UK, on the chase for and hopefully surpassing that elusive challis, that is the imaginary beast known as "the average income"

?


Re their own pensions, Superannuation contributions are 100 pct mandatory here In Aussie. I Hope most people realise that.

Siren & Brian

there is way too much agreeing going on here

JackTheLad

I also hope they realise the shocking amount of tax/rates here. It can be a bit of a shock. The closest I've seen was when I worked in Ireland, 40% tax, basically say bye bye to half your wages.

Cheers,
JTL

sackofspuds

Quite right, Grayling. At the risk of repeating myself, I'd add that anyone with children has to think about their prospects too. They won't have that one-off boost from the proceeds from a UK house sale and I for one wouldn't be keen on having them move back to the UK permanently.

There seems general agreement that white collar jobs are paid considerably less in Oz. I remember when I left Oz ten years ago I was earning in the low $30ks. Within a few months of getting back to the UK I was earning £30k.

You hit the nail on the head when you said you would not travel halfway round the world to be worse off. White collar workers need to go with their eyes wide open. Unless you're dedicated to some pastime that you can only do easily in Oz such as scuba diving then the sunshine soon palls.

I think it's fair to say that up until recently very few white collar workers migrated to Australia. Tradespeople, unskilled workers and public sector workers probably aren't paid that much less and maybe more. Office workers are the ones who need to do their research very carefully before taking the plunge.

sackofspuds

When did you get there, JTL? I know you work in the IT sector. What do you do and how have you found it?

JackTheLad

Ah, well, we arrived in August, only started looking for Jobs properly in November.

So far Mrs JTL has got a good well paying job. We're both IT, I'm a former C++/Java progammer, then I got shoved into management and CRM stuff.

My only observation so far is I'm stunned how many applications I've sent get no response. Unbelievable. I've never applied for a job in the UK or Europe before and not had at least an invite to an interview.

Its very odd here, I re-applied for a job that I was ignored for first time around, and second time they were really keen on hiring me, but the pay was uhhmmm, cr@p. No explanation why I was ignored the first time. Something to do with being new immigrants I guess.

Could just be me I suppose, I'll put my tin hat on now for all the people saying they came to Oz and just walked into high paying jobs. Damn they must be good!

Cheers,
JTL

sackofspuds

Well, I have trouble getting work in the UK, which is why I wouldn't even bother trying in Adelaide but would head straight into self-employment.

Which IT area does Mrs JTL work in?

sackofspuds

Yeah, it's not only the poor pay which gets to me, but the fact that the lack of jobs means it's all about "who you know".

No offence, but this is where we differ. I have no desire to go into semi-retirement at age 45 (I'm 41 now).

My stepfather did. In choosing to take a low paid job in Oz in his early 40s he has forced my mother to wipe bums in an old people's home for 15 years. She's 65 now and still doing it. You see, he is 14 years younger and in my view he wasn't entitled to start taking it easy from his early 40s.

Curiously, even though they have been there since the late 80s, it is this thread that has opened my eyes to the fact that by going to Oz and working for the equivalent of £18k pa he has forced my mother into doing a very unpleasant job for the forseeable future.

One more point. Migrants with kids will have to subtract childcare from their earnings. If we went back we would both be able to work full time because my mother would provide the childcare. We decided not to go, even though our situation is the reverse of most migrants in many respects.

HiddenPaw

Yes, that's a good point (and Grayling's points too) - it's not just about your salary, but moreso your disposable income and what your disposable income will buy you in terms of cost of living and lifestyle.

Things may appear cheaper in Oz (especially when initially spending up your UK pounds) but once you're living off your Aus wages the picture can be somewhat different.

Those 'Place Down Under' programs always make me laugh as they ALWAYS convert the home rental cost to UK pounds - usually a 4 bed spacious home with pool, in the Perth suburbs and "only $250 a week ....that's £100", they say, but never mention what $250 is in relation to an Aussie wage. No wonder [some] people in the UK think "wow - Australia is so cheap".

mr mover

Try here, for starters but you had better be ready to go any were in WA. www.miningpeople.com.au/faqs.asp?catid=10&qid=27 Goodluck ......mm

JackTheLad

I used to work in CRM implementation, for just over 7 years, and am now doing CRM production support. The best job market for us should really be Melbourne, Sydney and Canberra (heaps of government projects), but we have no intention of ever moving house again. We love it here. We're IT prostitutes and will do any work to pay the bills.

There are lots of SAP jobs here but it's not my area, or JTL's.

Cheers,
Mrs JTL

Badge

It's very easy to get confused when number crunching. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Lots of things can get skewed, so I am not going to get upset.

I would say that a combined income of c 100,000K is very achievable and can take in to account a high earner and a low eaner, or 2 moderate earners etc.etc.

If 70,000 is reportedly a good income, then that is also still achievable for 2 earners, even 2 low income earners.

The trick is to get one person earning 70,000K then a lot of things fall in to place.

Lots of middle managers/skilled IT/telecoms types get expect to get about 70k I've noticed in Melbourne. I would not get out of bed for less than 70K now, for my job, but if the job was different I would get out of bed for FAR less. When I first came here, I was wanting 65K and all the agencies said that was achievable for a first timer. I ended up getting 100,000 as a contractor so I was surprised.

The thing to remember is that thousands of Australian families have managed, even if they are in debt - just like British families.

One thing that allows me to sleep at nights with a baby on the way is the fact I bought my house for 1997 prices - or something. Even on a low wage, I would still pay my mortgage, and provide beans on toast whilst I got something better, and hey, we did it in the 80s when I was a kid so I am not proud. I don't HAVE to be a yuppie just to pay the mortgage. My mates at work have 2k to 3k mortgages, I would not sleep at nights with a mortgage like that - it means you have to be earning 70k+ a year to JUST pay the mortgage..

In London I used to dream of owning a family home in a village where my mortgage was the third of the average wage. In fact I was obsessed by it. I wanted actually very little!! By finally achieving this in Melbourne, I think I have bought myself 10-15 years and a lot less stress as I go into my 40s. It also buys my kids a happier upbringing in their first years. Sure they will find it hard, but then I found it hard too, (in the UK) and they will have been exposed to better times as a kid. I can only recall living in a council falt- they will recall living on an acre. If we are mortgage free earlier than some we can help with house deposits, and the cycle continues. They can go off to Euriope to earn thousands of dollars, have the time of their lives, then come back and settle, so they get options - options(!) If I had stayed in the UK, it would have been harder to break the cycle - my parents were skint. In countries like the UK and Australia middle class home ownership is the only real way to achieve any kind of lifestyle, nay security. The sooner, and cheaper you can do it the better.

Badge

G'Day

Hi JTL,

A friend of mine who is a Oracle DA came over a few months ago and got a job within three weeks of landing in Melbourne. Queensland is not known for it's IT market so if you want to stay there then you'll probably have to consider a career change.

You have to go where the jobs are if you want to work, the jobs are not going to come to you just 'cause you like the sunshine coast. Sorry, but that's reality.

As for getting no answers on your CV, try getting a consultant to redo it for you. It's all in the wording of the CV over here. When I was HR manager for the first company I worked for in Australia I was willing to search through CV's for relevant information but quickly realised I was the only one doing this. The manager would take one look at a CV and if it was too long, too difficult to read or had any spelling errors he'd simply trash it! I often had to argue with him about employing some of the people he "trashed' as they were really good, but he just couldn't be bothered to read CV's that weren't what he was used to. :scared:

Having applied for a fair amount of jobs before getting my CV to the point where I get a response from people almost every time I can vouch for what I am saying.

You'd think that in a market that needs skilled people they would take more care, but fact is, Australians don't like to think outside the square so either you write your CV to fit their ideals for a position or you're history.

G'Day

Wanted to give this some serious karma but it won't let me Great post Badge and very true.