Scoosh

Hi All

I would appreciate anyones opinions on where they might consider some of the better cities for us to look for work as a young professional couple with no kids (preferably on the East coast). About us:

• I recently had my partner visa approved and plan on heading over towards the end of the year along with my partner (who obviously is an Autralian citizen).
• Moving from UK (mid sized city with low cost of living and plenty of pubs/restaurants/culture)
• I'm a Business Analyst with 8 years experience working on Agile tech projects for goverments/ utilities/ e-commerce and my partner works for local government
• We lived in Toronto previously and did not find the pay or standard of living made up for the COL, so looking to avoid that scenario again if possible (I am aware of the high COL in Oz but would like to get the most bang for our buck)
• Looking for good mix of night life / culture / affordability

I have looked at comparisons online, but I often find these are out of date or I question their accuracy, so if anyone would like to share their personal experiences of any city, it would be helpful.

Also any advice for someone turning up with PR would be amazing e.g. first things to set up when we arrive, suggested bank accounts etc.
Cheers

poida

Hi Scoosh,

I've been doing similar research and can give you an idea of my insights and experiences if that helps at all? These are from my experiences and observations, and I'm happy to be corrected by someone else's experience. Of course what's important to me might not be to you and vise versa. I'll list the 8 largest cities and some of my pros and cons I had written down for each city;

Sydney - Great Weather, nice beaches. Very big city, can take ages to travel from one part to another so people generally stay local, city workers generally go straight home rather than socialise after work (from my experience). Housing/rent very expensive.
Melbourne - Awesome night life, festivals, sport year round. Cheaper to live than Sydney, can live inner city and transport is good, not so much in the suburbs. Weather is rubbish - cold winters, summers can be very hot (think 4 days in a row over 40 degrees, getting down to 30 at night) but Spring/Autumn is fantastic. If you surf it's far from any real waves, but the beaches on the bay are fairly nice.
Brisbane - sub-tropical climate (humid/wet in summer, dry and mild in winter). Brisbane is on the river and doesn't really have that many beaches close to it.
Perth - I know you said East Coast, but Perth has fantastic weather, and heaps of good beaches. It's just far away from everything, and can be very expensive if you're not working in mining or a related industry. Also has the reputation of 'dullsville' not much to do there, other than surf.
Adelaide - Cheap, great wine regions, best chocolate factory in the world (IMO) has a good 'beach' or 2. It's one of the smaller capital cities, and the weather is similar to Melbourne, but more extreme (colder in winter, hotter in summer)
Gold Coast - Similar weather to Brisbane, obviously fantastic beaches and lifestyle. Can be expensive, and if you need office work you're more likely to get work in Brisbane which is a horrid commute from GC.
Newcastle - no idea, never been there and wasn't on my list.
Canberra - Most people here work in jobs related to the federal government. Bit of a drive to get to the coast for a surf, but well placed for all the ski fields in winter if you're into that.

Scoosh

Thanks Poida, that is a really useful summary!

Your profile says you are from Cardiff (I am from Glasgow so similar rainy climate) so do you still find Melbourne weather is harsh compared to ours? I have seen things online suggesting the weather can be terrible there and I tend to roll my eyes thinking it cant be as dull, wet and cold as it gets here!

Based on what I have read I feel a bit more drawn to Melbourne but if the weather really gets that bad, I would reconsider.

I take on board what you are saying about Perth too and if the right role came up, I would probably give it a go!

(I have only just learned that you can ski in Australia - pretty naive I guess)

Cheers

the troubadour

Probably Melbourne giving the desired preferences. Still hardly cheap, but other factors more likely to be found.

bcworld

Honestly...some of the stuff that gets written on here about the climate in Melbourne...it tends to be hugely exaggerated...either on the downside by people that don't live here, or on the upside by some of our local evangelists!

I would honestly say, trust the climate charts! They will also ways be close to the real picture.

We've just finished a summer where the average maximum over the course of the summer is about 25C. There were no days over 40C and barely any over 35C.

I've lived here for 12 years and we've never had a summer where the average would be close to 30C.

It's weird for someone to say Melbourne is too hot in summer but describe Perth weather as 'fantastic'!

Melbourne does sound a good fit for you...and as a COL proposition, as a renter anyway, it is way cheaper than Sydney...if there is a salary difference (I don't think there is) it doesn't make up for it. It's cheaper to buy property too (not as cheap as Brisbane), but there really seems to be a rental sweet spot.

Beoz

Your job location requirements would be the clincher. Have a bit of a browse around now online, see where those jobs are located, head to that location and be prepared to move if required.

Brisbane is the cheapest and Sydney the most expensive for rentals, the other cities are in between. All other commodities are more or less the same price wherever you live. Having said that apartments are cheap to rent now. Not enough demand. Buying a house has sky rocketed.

Depends what you require on the culture front but Australia is not renowned for its culture. You would be best staying in Europe if that's a necessity. If you refer to history, arts, music, probably Sydney or Melbourne.

Scoosh

Thanks Beoz, I have been using Seek website to get an idea for jobs so far, is that the best place to look?

I am not a culture buff by any stretch of the imagination, but I like the odd museum or art gallery and nice architecture. I include decent pub culture as part of this too :P

Definitely won't be buying for a while so thats positive for us too

Scoosh

Cheers, thats very useful insight. How do you find your winters? I have seen people talk about terrible south-westerly(?) winds which make the wind chill factor unbearable.

Again though, with comparison to Glasgow, we are just coming out of winter now where there were plenty of sub zero days and it generally sitting between -1 and 6 degrees. That and we get around 1300mm of rain and cloudy skies most of the year!

Scoosh

Thanks Troubadour!

bcworld

Well, I suppose people have different perceptions!
I'm also Scottish (east coast...so the dry part!) but I lived in Glasgow for 4 years. I remember my first winter there...the rain did not stop!
Anyway, winters are a non event for me...I prefer summer and autumn for sure. Terrible winds aren't really something I associate with winter...obviously they happen from time to time.
Anecdotally...the early part of winter is often quite sunny. I actually think early spring can be the gloomiest time of the year...and it can feel like winter just dragged on an extra month or so.
I guess some people might say that moving to Aus you have the potential to basically give winter the flick altogether. I lived in Brisbane for 5 years and the winters are amazing. Some people think it's unbearable in summer there...I don't really agree...I would just recommend an A/C in the bedroom for when you need it.

For the type of work you do...Melbourne is full of company HQs, with PMOs running agile (or traditional) projects. Every Australian state also has an abundance of state and local government employers.

poida

Hiya, Yeah I’m in Cardiff at the moment but now the kids are a bit older we’re looking to move back to Aussie and trying to decide the best city to live in.

Based on what you’ve said I agree with everyone that Melbourne is your best bet. I wouldn’t worry about the winters, if I compared it to Wales, Melbourne winters are balmy! just keep in mind that houses in Australia are built to stay cool in Summer which is the opposite to UK houses, you’ll miss the central heating and double glazed windows on those cold nights.

And I think I just had a bad experience with the Summers in Melbourne, I lived there for 4 years, and there were definitely some extended heat waves with unbearable temperatures (during the Black Saturday bushfires in 2009 it got to 46 degrees) but they were interspersed with some lovely summer days. I think the past few years the weather patterns have been much cooler.

In my defence, Perth definitely has more hotter days but there is the daily ‘Fremantle Doctor’ that brings in a cool sea breeze in the afternoon. In Melbourne there can be a hot Northerly wind day and night for a few days until there is finally a cool change, I’ve seen it drop from 40+ to under 20 degrees within an hour when the wind changes direction in Melbourne.

The upshot is, my recommendation is to get a place with air conditioning, you will definitely need it even just for those odd days. If it’s reversible then it will come in handy in winter too! Otherwise invest in a good portable heater and electric blanket!

All the best

themerlin

Who actually goes to the beach that often
Melbourne can get hot but not for long and I don't think it gets humid, Brisbane is hot and humid everyday for 3 months but the rest of the years the weather is great.

the troubadour

As the OP has lived in Toronto, it could be assumed that they will have a fair idea as to living in a new world city. Just reverse the weather conditions and rally not so very different. Toronto better located for flights back to UK, with the bonus New York State is very close. It is somewhat hard to sell Australia these days, IMO. One needs to really want to move here rather than just an inkling to see what it is like. Just so money cost involved on all sides for increasingly limited return. As others have mentioned, work will largely dictate settlement city. In all probability that will most likely be limited to the bigger populated states, which are expensive. One can live further out for less, but forfeit much that makes life interesting and enjoyable as well. Too often more than likely staying home as just can't be bothered driving long distances in order to go out.
In that case actual city is less important than being close to facilities to eat out and entertainment venues.

poida

Agree the further out you live is a trade off between cost and lifestyle. I think if I hadn't have worked for a large bank in the CBD I wouldn't have spent as much time enjoying the city. I've lived in Perth and Melbourne, I found that most of the Melbourne suburbs have retained their traditional high street with plenty of cafes and boutique shops, where as Perth you need to live inner city such as Subi, Leederville, Mt Lawley, Vic Park/South Perth or Freo to get the same sort of high street experience, further out retail is mostly restricted to large shopping centres.

rammygirl

For corporate jobs Sydney and Melbourne are going to be your best bet.

Adelaide is lovely and with the fringe on at the moment probably one of the most vibrant cities in the world (not a sentence you will hear often) people who say it is a backwater haven’t been for a while.

For corporate jobs especially without Australian experience in Adelaide you will struggle. A neighbour of ours who moved from Sydney took over a year to get a gig and then only because my OH introduced him! Once he got that first project he was away but........

The weather here is better than Melbs, dryer.