Scoosh

I haven't found the answer online yet, but do you know if there are any issues working for australian government as a non-citizen? (I will have PR when I arrive).

Theres the mention of snow again which is shocking me! Any decent skiing around there?

spouse of scouse

Most APS jobs are open to all Australian citizens; however, individual agencies may decide to employ non-Australian citizens. Further details about citizenship requirements is available on the Australian Public Service Commission website’s Conditions of Engagement page.
https://www.apsjobs.gov.au/s/how-to-join-aps

Scoosh

You are right, I had not even considered Hobart!

And you may be right about the big city but we are willing to give it another go, albeit trying to avoid the pitfalls that we encountered last time. My experience of Toronto was that with all things considered, we were significantly worse off financially and found it extremely difficult to find work compared to the UK. Many of the roles I was applying for (for which I would expect to earn a reasonable wage in the UK) did not pay well even before taking into account the much higher COL. I thought I had done my research before I went, but looking back, I think that much of what I had read was a bit out of date and did not reflect the (relatively) low wages in comparison to COL.

We knew we were taking a risk before we went and saved plenty before going to make sure that we could support oursleves for a long period without work but ultimately found that Canada (or Toronto at least) was not for us.

I appreciate there will be many of the same problems that we faced in Toronto but we at least have contacts in Australia who we can live with for a short while and I am hoping to get a jump on employment by applying several months before we go.

That being said, I would settle pretty much anywhere iniitally if there was work, and would definitely consider Canberra.

abner

The income vs COL equation isn't significantly different from city to city, in the end. Housing costs--the major geographical variable in COL--differ a fair bit from city to city, but salaries for generic mid-level IT work roughly reflect those differences. (However, you haven't mentioned any subject-matter-expertise developed in relation to your BA work. That might affect the best-city-fit to some degree.)

Or look at it the other way: housing costs in any given city reflect--broadly--the available local incomes.

So, if you're moving internationally (again) anyway, why not prioritise a location that best fits your lifestyle and climate preferences, as long as it ticks the #1 box "they'll pay me to be there"?

Yup. (initially)

quoll

APS generally requires citizenship but local government requires only PR as a general rule. If you work for an agency doing work for the APS then as long as you pass the security process I think you should be OK. You said your citizen OH did government work so I was thinking Canberra might be a better option for them in the first instance.

Yes, skiing is quite good down in the Snowies although the Climate disasterists are always bleating about how there is never going to be any snow ever again (it still manages to fall every year)

Beoz

Plenty of people live in Toronto. They can't be all living below the bread line. Unless you luck out, and find your dream job in a cheap city, you will be drawn to where there is more choice of work, and you live to fit into that arrangement. Remember, there is no hidden reason why one place is more expensive than the other - it's simple, it's better. Sure some people might say, I don't want to live in New York because it's too busy, but it's very quiet 40 mins from Grand Central. They make it work. Hobart is very pleasant, great for a weekend away, but work is slim pickings.

the troubadour

Plenty live in Toronto and obviously many don't live below the poverty line, but I can guarantee many, many more live in more strained circumstances than before the rot with housing was unleashed out of the bag. Most want to live at least equal and preferably better to where they left surely? A fall in living standards, while may not be poverty line living is not what is being sought. Would Sydney be any different an experience to Toronto on how OP experienced? Highly debatable. Knowing people may get Sydney over the line at least in early days but overall some luck most likely required.
But the OP appears to be aware of such similarities and up for the challenge . This is suggestive all bridges are not burned if it doesn't work. In that case worth giving it a go if mind set on it.

Beoz

Your aren't going to bring your own Perth based property ladder struggles to the table surely? As the OP said, Toronto may have just been a bad experience. It may have been a first job and accepted a below par salary. Who knows. Chalk it up to experience. The experience of living in another country is priceless. Failure to change from learning an experience is costly.

the troubadour

The only struggles would be the likelihood of over inflated Sydney property market putting a dampener on the immigration experience. Obviously various factors may have played out to nullify the Toronto experience. The OP appears knowledgeable into the similarities of the cities and prepared to give it a go regardless.
The experience of living in another country, can indeed be rewarding. But surely Australia is not so different from Canada , even UK in aspects, as to make it so 'priceless' as you put it. I'd suggest to end up 'penniless' if the worst scenario materialized probably not worth the 'enrichment' an attempt at a Down Under experience. But sure the OP has a Plan B in the case of it not working out.

Moses2013

Agree and what makes it priceless? At the end of the day it's just another place with streets and houses, you have Zara, you have Starbucks and even the same language. If you sell your mortgage free home in England and move to Jersey, but then end up in a tiny damp non quals apartment with less money and see all your savings go, it probably wouldn't be considered a great experience.

Beoz

They are planning to rent wherever they go. For purchasing Sydney it not over inflated. The market dictates the prices. It's the most expensive to purchase because it has the most demand. Most demand usually means it's the best place to live. But they are a long way off purchasing anywhere in Australia. Maybe a bit of positivity and a one step at a time approach might be wiser words from you.

Scoosh

RE BA specialisation - anything data related, analysis, visualisation, reporting etc. But I am still a bit of an all rounder and haven't specialised to a high degree so I feel comfortable jumping between sectors.

And I take your point about best fit lifestyle wise. I suppose becuase Toronto didn't work out for us, I am just determined to make my best go of this opportunity.

Scoosh

Yeah I am not on here to dump on Toronto, there are millions of people there and many who have made a success of it for themselves, but I can only go by my own experience. We went looking for something more and did not find it... so the search continues!

Scoosh

For what its worth, much of what you are saying here does ring true to our experience. We were not leaving a bad situation back in Glasgow. We both were making decent money, able to put a lot away to savings, go on holiday a couple time a year and socialise regularly. We went to Toronto with no jobs, a single contact and our savings, knowing full well that it was a risk but we could always go back to Scotland and pick up where we left off.

I was definitely naive to just how expensive things were in comparison. Rent obviously, but food, drink, furniture, car insurance and personal hygiene products were also very expensive by comparison. The comparison sites and comments I had seen online before hand did not express just how much this was the case so it was definitely a shock.

We found the job market to be very difficult too. I personally applied for several hundred jobs over the course of a year which resulted in only two (unsuccessful) interviews (both of which ghosted me). A job advert could be posted for a few hours and already have hundreds of applications. This was again surprising to me as I have had never had issues finding work in the UK.

The wages which were being offered were also far lower than had also been suggested online. For instance, my partner found work as a junior analyst for a successful tech company and her wages literally just covered our rent and nothing more. We made a point of getting out and meeting people as much as we could and again my experience was that the majority shared this opinion. We knew many people who were living with up to 6 others just to make ends meet.

On the other had, we also met people who had moved there approx 15 years ago and made a packet by buying a house in the surrounding area which had tripled in value over 10 years.

Like I said above, I dont mean to dump on Toronto, there are loads who love the city! I put much of our experience down to bad luck. We moved there not too long before covid struck and I have no doubt that it affected our chances of finding quality work. Ultimately though, we were significantly worse off and the city and culture did not make up for that. It got to the stage that we were unwilling to continue to struggle unnecessarily and decided to head home (luckily both of us found great jobs in the UK within a month of that decision).

We learned a lot and we are still looking for something more than we have, hence why we plan to try out Australia!

Moses2013

Not in OZ myself now, but one thing is always the same in every major city across the world. Unfortunately it often comes down to property prices and unless you bought at the right time, inherit loads of money, the challenges remain. Timing is an important factor moving from a low cost area to high cost area and while money isn't everything, it's just natural that this is one important factor. It's no different in Barcelona and many struggle with high rents and due to the high rents can't save for a deposit. I love Begur and Tossa etc. but by not moving to Barcelona and staying where we are in Ireland, I actually get to enjoy it more than people I know in Barcelona. If I had to move to Dublin today, I would also have to sell the house here and the 2nd home in Spain, just to be able to afford the deposit for something we'd consider decent there. And even if we didn't buy and used the savings to rent, the savings would be gone very quickly. 20 years ago it was a very different story and I remember those who left to Australia with nothing and came back as wealthy people.