The more I read this, the more I hope that, in some shape or form it all goes horribly pear shaped for you... you would need to go a long way to see a more self centered and heartless post than yours. Nothing would serve you better than to be put into the position of having to rely on other people for help for a period of time. Perhaps then you wouldn't be so bloody arrogant.

Why is it a stupid point of view? Why does my occupation have any effect on my ability to reason? Why do people think they have a right to free healthcare? Why not go the whole hog and say food is free? Wanna new 40" LCD? Have that free as well! Sure, all this free stuff sounds good in principal but somebody along the way has to pay for it and why should that be me or you? I don't know you, or the guy over the road. Why should I pay for his healthcare? Why should I support your kids? My responsibility should be for myself and my family and nobody else. The Government should not be giving benefits to the public and should be responsible only for things like law & order and the military. This way, we'd pay less taxes and have the extra to spend on personal insurances with the benefit of better services and competition between providers leading to sensible prices.

Look at the state of the Australian and UK health system. It is in a state of disrepair. Socialised medicine doesn't work and it has been proven many times the world over. As a Paramedic, I am regularly stood with a patient in the ED corridors for many hours whilst waiting for a bed. My record so far is 6 hours. The standing about doesn't bother me but it strikes me that the system can't cope and the reason is clear....lack of funds. The only way it'll improve is to privatise it. The problem is, the Goverment (UK/ Aus/ many others) has went donwn the path of socialism and there's a large amount of people now receiving benefits that it'd be political suicide to ever think of changing it. It's a sinking ship I tell ya.

Answer my question... what happens to those who can't pay?.

What happens to YOUR family if you become long term sick or permanently disabled?... and don't spout some bullshit about insurance because it won't cover you long term...
In your scenario the old, the sick and the disabled are sent to the wall and left to die... and if that really is your opinion on what should happen then you are in the wrong job.

It's not arrogance, it's the fact that I have planned sufficiently to be confident I can provide for my family without having to beg for help. Humans have survived millions of years by looking after themselves...certainly more than they have over the last 100 years or so of socialism! I don't live beyond my means. I don't lavishly spend my spare cash and borrow from banks to live a lifestyle that cannot continue to be funded should the worst happen. I have no credit or loans. I have plenty of savings and insurances to cover pretty much any eventuality.

Yes, I begrudge working as hard as I do to provide for people that I don't know. I am in a unique position in that I get to see much more of where my taxes go than most people. I go into people's homes on a daily basis and find people with no jobs living it up with lavish lifestyle. 50" TV's, 4 kids, XBox's and playstations in every room. Using the "social" used to be a safety net...an absolute last resort when times are hard. With the current generation, it is a lifestyle choice and not a safety net. I spoke to a young girl (16) not too long ago. She told me she was trying to get pregnant. When I asked why, she said she'd get a free apartment

And please, don't judge me when you know nothing about me. I have done more voluntary work in the community than you can ever hope to imagine....from providing my time in helping the homeless in shelters to providing my services as a Paramedic to an Air Ambulance charity.

Answer my question, why is it up to me to provide for you, your neighbour or the guy over the road?

Let me put you straight on one point. If you think that those of us in healthcare do it because we have some sort of "calling", then you are very wrong. We go to work because it is something we enjoy, are good at and it pays for what we do in our time off. So please, stop insinuating that I am in the wrong job . I am very good at my job - I do it professionally, non judgementally, with compassion and respect for all....a fact all my references and letters of appreciation will attest to. If you ever needed any help you can bet your ass you'd want me turning up to help you.

Before Medicare everyone had private cover and as it was universal the cost was easily afforded, also you were completely covered ie no out of pocket expenses. Those who were pensioners, all types of pensions, and those out of work had free healthcare. In my opinion it was a much better system than we have now.

Your other comments in this thread suggest that you are incapable of compassion for anybody other than yourself... and that's what I meant by being in the wrong job... not that the health professionals do it as a calling but that its a profession that requires a certain amount of empathy for others. If a society that actually pools its resources and attempts to take care of the weakest in its midst is going to be called "Socialist" then you can call me Karl Marx from now on.

If you truly believe in a "survival of the fittest" approach to life then you are one sad sorry example of a human being.

This is the wrong board, and thread, for this sort of discussion so I will take it no further.

iamthecreaturefromuranus, you have been pretty personal in all your comments to me so far yet I have tried to keep things away that. You openly admit to earning $100k and still choose to claim benefits because you feel you are entitled to them. If you cannot get by without benefits when you earn $100k then you are clearly living beyond your means. I earn less than that and my partner isn't working yet we manage just fine. There's many others on the board earning significantly less than that and would like all the cash they earn to be available for use on their own family....not to supplement your income. Why should us lower earners pay for your lifestyle?

You my friend are the biggest hippocrite going....you are happy to claim benefits that you don't need but feel you are entitled to them, so do so anyway, all whilst spouting bullshit "what about those who have nothing"? If you and people like you didn't abuse the system, maybe it wouldn't be in the state it is?

You have a vested interest in maintaining a benefit system as your are using it yourself. You'll never see my point of view as it's not in your interest. This is what I mean when I say the government could never withdraw it now that people are using it...it would be political suicide.

Not getting into this argument but I would like to point out Iam did not say he was claiming because he was entitled to. He said he claimed for such things because the government are of the opinion that in his circumstances they are ready and willing to give something back. As he said, he would be a fool not to. At no point did he say he was living beyond his means.

I suggest you both read what the other writes and there would be less argument.

None of this is helpful to the OP anyway so if you could stop now, both of you, I'd be grateful.

OK.. one last time.

Its the government that says I'm entitled to the benefits I get, not me.. they amount to $48.62 per week. To put that in perspective, I have been in Oz about three and a half years and in that time I have paid roughly $212,000 in direct taxation alone... by my calculations my taxes are probably paying to keep your sorry arse in work.

On your system I would be MASSIVELY better off and you would probably be destitute as no private health system would pay for the likes or paramedics to sit on their backsides for large parts of the day waiting to rush to the aid of somebody who might not be covered by insurance, or, even worse, covered by somebody else's insurance.

Your utopian medical system is pretty close to that of the US. A system so corrupt and failing that everybody, apart from the health insurance industry of course, in the US agrees is in need of massive reform. A reform that will almost certainly move it closer to the systems of the UK and Oz.

Show me one country in the world that has adopted policies even close to those you are advocating, where only the strongest survive and the weak and sick are left to fend for themselves.

Sorry, cross posted. I won't be involved in this thread anymore.

I have a far more serious question thats haunted me for years.

Why do you press harder on the buttons of a remote control when you know the batteries are dead?

Because there's always that glimmer of hope.......... Never say die Rodney

Looks like you should be the part of Govt. and make policies where govt should not care about the people... Your thinking sucks...

If you work you pay for EVERYTHING, if you dont work the state provides for you........so what's the incentive in working.