Lord_Farquar

Glad it's not just me!

snowbunny

Same has been happening for 20 years in the US. Requiring English is no bar to entry in this case. This has decimated many areas of IT and it precipitated the offshoring movement.

What happens is that in theory, immigration is said to be "tough" enough to allow citizens and residents to have preferential job treatment. In reality, it's the corporations who lobby the government and throw money at them who make the laws to favour whatever group of workers they want to bring in.

ABCDiamond

You know with certainty, the nationality of the poster then ?

pomtastic

I think your statement here completely nails it, the big corporations do what they like, they have the ultimate power.

pomtastic

Perhaps the poster had a few too many bottles of wine, easily done, just like texting when your drunk, good idea at the time but bad news when you read back your sent messages.

nowthat

I stand corrected
But the probability is high

nowthat

I agree but 457 is a temporary work visa (permit) for those candidates who offer skills/expertise that cannot be found locally. It seems that in some cases these jobs can be offered to Australians who otherwise become/remain unemployed. But they are not since the employer chooses to nominate a foreigner. The reason ... perhaps lower wages/salary?

The Feb 7 changes provide for even faster processing of employment-sponsored applications (457). A political will seems to exist to give preference to these candidates but is there a system that verifies that jobs on offer can be taken by Australians first (see 457 visa definition)? So far it looks like only the employers use their sole discretion to determine this. This may as well be an obvious conflict of interest as - one would assume - their main criterion will be the profit maximization (thus lower salaries).

Bermudashorts

Do you know this for sure? I spend a lot of time reading the immigration forum, here and elsewhere. A lot of people come along thinking it will be easy to pick up 457 sponsorship but they swiftly return to earth with a bump. It is pretty difficult for most people with PR already to secure a role before arriving in Australia, never mind sponsorship. The Australian employers do prefer to recruit locally first as far as I can tell as it is a lot quicker and easier.

Addtionally are you aware of the rules around market rates? It is a requirement of the 457 sponsorship that the employee is paid at least market rate.

TheRutters

I'm sorry but I'm going to stir the waters here. There is a constant thread of 'lower salaries' running through this. In three years of working in the mining industry on major projects, I have not seen one single person paid a lower salary, either manual or non-manual. It's a complete urban legend, the same as it was in the UK. There are always the 2% that don't conform to this, but the massive majority of times, it just doesn't work like this.

When it comes to lay offs, most employers work on a person by person approach. If you're productive and easy to supervise, you'll very likely be kept. The reverse is also true. Passports don't generally come into it.

Add the well publicised problems on the Gorgon projects from the wonderful unions and it's no wonder that people on 457 visas are retained.

snowbunny

Isn't this a slippery slope meaning that workers who keep their mouths shut about lower pay, long hours or dangerous working conditions will be retained over those that don't?

lonndongeek

Think about it from the employer's point of view...

You need to lay off 1 of your 5 workers. Are you going to choose one of the four who gets on quietly with their job and is productive, or the loudmouth constantly banging on about what they're 'entitled' to?

"productive and easy to supervise" isn't the same as keeping your mouth shout about lower pay, long hours or dangerous working conditions.

Cheers

Steve

nowthat

Yep, but at the same time there ARE capable Australians (co-workers) to do the same job so the foreigners should not receive preferred treatment (keep their jobs) as this contradicts the very principle upon which 457 visas were issued.

Visa 457 - temporary work permit in a situation where local skills/expertise cannot be found.

Does it not mean that when the push come to shove, the first individuals to be considered for retrenchment should be foreigners?

If you worked in China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore (although the situation changes there recently there with a push for PRC workers - to the discontent of the electorate) you would know how the foreign personnel is being treated when the going gets tough. You are shown the door as local citizens are protected.

TheRutters

Productive and easy to supervise could be called a desirable skill and it's not always readily available in the WA job market either

Not always is the short answer to that. Certain parts of the world do, most don't.

The whole argument of 457'ers getting kept and Aussies laid off is frankly small scale. It really isn't the problem people think it is. In terms of jobs and dollars, the bigger issue, especially in EPCM Engineering is the amount of skilled manual and technical work going offshore. This odd 457'er taking a job probably totals less than 2000 accross Australia, offshoring work is running into millions of man hours accross the Engineering industry.

siamsusie

Well I have lived trhere for 4 years, my husband 22 years excellent place to bring up children. No complaints from this end!!

siamsusie

Yep flights commence from Melbourne to Karratha 3rd May very cheap prices and I second that. I love Karratha....