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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Australia (https://britishexpats.com/forum/australia-54/)
-   -   Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara (https://britishexpats.com/forum/australia-54/fury-migrant-workers-keep-jobs-pilbara-657352/)

pomtastic Mar 2nd 2010 4:24 am
Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
This is interesting, 70 Filipinos kept their jobs for a Chinese iron ore contractor in the Pilbara while 54 Australians lost theirs jobs.

Are the Filipinios getting paid less than the Australians, therefore cheaper to keep on and an economic decision?

Will this be a continuing trend with the coming so called skills shortage, import cheaper skilled labour on 457 visas?

Perhaps the Filipinos work harder than the Aussies?

Are the Chinese basically telling the unions that they can employ anyone they want so they better not strike or demand high wages?

This could blow up.

http://www.news.com.au/business/fury...-1225835912621

Fury as migrant workers keep jobs

From: The Australian March 02, 2010 8:39AM

An industrial dispute is brewing in the Pilbara / File Source: The Australian
INDUSTRIAL tensions in the Pilbara are escalating after an engineering contractor sacked 54 Australian workers at a $5.2 billion Chinese-owned iron ore project while retaining up to 70 Filipinos with similar skills.

The Australian Manufacturing Workers Union will today meet representatives of the Adelaide-based Ottoway Engineering in a bid to find out why migrant workers are apparently being favoured ahead of locals at Citic Pacific's mine at Cape Preston, near Karratha, The Australian reports.

The AMWU says the Australian workers were "irate" after being told last week they had been retrenched.

The controversy adds to weeks of mounting industrial friction in the region, with workers at Woodside's $12bn Pluto gas project walking off the job last month in protest against their accommodation arrangements.

Amazulu Mar 2nd 2010 4:33 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386088)
This is interesting, 70 Filipinos kept their jobs for a Chinese iron ore contractor in the Pilbara while 54 Australians lost theirs jobs.

Are the Filipinios getting paid less than the Australians, therefore cheaper to keep on and an economic decision?

Will this be a continuing trend with the coming so called skills shortage, import cheaper skilled labour on 457 visas?

Perhaps the Filipinos work harder than the Aussies?

Are the Chinese basically telling the unions that they can employ anyone they want so they better not strike or demand high wages?

This could blow up.

http://www.news.com.au/business/fury...-1225835912621
There are many aspects to this story. Some of the Filipinos are Aussies PRs and some are even citizens - so if the union is protesting against them then they are being racist or need to get their facts right. The Chinese might own the company but they still have to adhere to Australian labour law, HS&E regualtions deal with Australian unions etc. Hence we don't have mine sites with 1000s of Chinese working on them - fi they could get do this they would, but they can't. Many Australian and other international companies doing business here use 457s in preference to local labour - and as long as our government allows this it will continue.

Weebie Mar 2nd 2010 7:02 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Apparently it was only 13 filopino workers but none the less this is a potential shitstorm which could force the government to "crack down" on immigration

Also If Perth is susposed to "Boom" again why are people being laid off???

Amazulu Mar 2nd 2010 7:11 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 8386292)
Also If Perth is susposed to "Boom" again why are people being laid off???
I think there's more to this story than what has been reported.

nowthat Mar 2nd 2010 8:07 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
The same thing keeps going on in Perth (and all over Australia?) as well. For example, American EPCM company that relocated recently to 100 StGeorges retrenched many Australian (and legal residents) engineers while retaining Chinese, Filipino, Malaysian etc workers who are on 457. Local engineers with local accreditation and/or registration were de facto replaced by foreigners with similar qualifications.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't 457 visa meant for those candidates who offer expertise that cannot be found locally? What really happened/happens is a clear contradiction as - in many cases - locals were replaced by foreigners with similar experience and qualifications. Shouldn't these jobs - by definition - have been offered to locals first? The reason this did not (and is not) happen is so obvious that I think I do not need to spell it out :)

Slowly does it become a political issue, am I in the wrong?

Australia_bound? Mar 2nd 2010 8:19 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 8386292)

Also If Perth is susposed to "Boom" again why are people being laid off???
What does something that's happening over a 1000km from Perth have to do with Perth? It is booming in the Pilbara, they'll all have jobs again in a few weeks. Just me who's struggling as not my sector :eek:

pomtastic Mar 2nd 2010 9:29 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8386408)
What does something that's happening over a 1000km from Perth have to do with Perth? It is booming in the Pilbara, they'll all have jobs again in a few weeks. Just me who's struggling as not my sector :eek:
The workers are usually fly in fly out from Perth and live in Perth. The Pilbabra is a harsh enviroment to live in and not most people's idea of a good place to live for any length of time.

Saying that, Fortescue fly in workers from Melbourne to the Pilbara iron ore mines right now at a cost of around $10K to the workers. The workers like it because they don't have to relocate to Perth and take their kids out of school and leave family and friends behind. This could be a way forward for the new Gorgon/Pluto Gas project.

pomtastic Mar 2nd 2010 9:44 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nowthat (Post 8386387)
The same thing keeps going on in Perth (and all over Australia?) as well. For example, American EPCM company that relocated recently to 100 StGeorges retrenched many Australian (and legal residents) engineers while retaining Chinese, Filipino, Malaysian etc workers who are on 457. Local engineers with local accreditation and/or registration were de facto replaced by foreigners with similar qualifications.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't 457 visa meant for those candidates who offer expertise that cannot be found locally? What really happened/happens is a clear contradiction as - in many cases - locals were replaced by foreigners with similar experience and qualifications. Shouldn't these jobs - by definition - have been offered to locals first? The reason this did not (and is not) happen is so obvious that I think I do not need to spell it out :)

Slowly does it become a political issue, am I in the wrong?
I've heard similar rumours about the IT industry in Sydney. Indian workers on 457's taken in preference over Australian workers. Australian workers getting laid off.

My thinking is, Australians are paid relatively huge salarys which is now affecting global competitiveness amongst Aus companies. Exactly the same happened in the UK circa 1998 when plumbers in the UK press were reportedly earning £100K a year because of a skills shortage. A couple of years later, Polish and European tradesmen flooded the UK and offered their skills at half the price because they were able to.

I was also wondering if these stories that are coming out now are a result of the coming Aus election, i.e planted for a reason and exaggerated just to gain votes for the party with a strong immigration policy.

jimbo_d Mar 2nd 2010 10:36 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386587)
I've heard similar rumours about the IT industry in Sydney. Indian workers on 457's taken in preference over Australian workers. Australian workers getting laid off.

My thinking is, Australians are paid relatively huge salarys which is now affecting global competitiveness amongst Aus companies. Exactly the same happened in the UK circa 1998 when plumbers in the UK press were reportedly earning £100K a year because of a skills shortage. A couple of years later, Polish and European tradesmen flooded the UK and offered their skills at half the price because they were able to.

I was also wondering if these stories that are coming out now are a result of the coming Aus election, i.e planted for a reason and exaggerated just to gain votes for the party with a strong immigration policy.
The same party who brought in 457 visas?

This story has been blown out of proportion, whilst it has happened in the past at the shipyard, it's not something going on everywhere. 457s are now workplace tested on application, which from 2005-2009 they weren't. I've read that some of the Filipinos are actually PR or citizens anyway.

Said EPCM company would be the one sounding like a breakfast cereal, they were in trouble in Perth anyway, a lot of noise about a really big job they have but not much of it was being designed in Perth. I know a few people working for them and there's no mention of favouring a particular type of worker it was whoever was being utilised or not at the time who got the chop.

Amazulu Mar 2nd 2010 11:33 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by jimbo_d (Post 8386696)
The same party who brought in 457 visas?

This story has been blown out of proportion, whilst it has happened in the past at the shipyard, it's not something going on everywhere. 457s are now workplace tested on application, which from 2005-2009 they weren't. I've read that some of the Filipinos are actually PR or citizens anyway.

Said EPCM company would be the one sounding like a breakfast cereal, they were in trouble in Perth anyway, a lot of noise about a really big job they have but not much of it was being designed in Perth. I know a few people working for them and there's no mention of favouring a particular type of worker it was whoever was being utilised or not at the time who got the chop.
Well said. The new 457 rules mean that it is going to be much harder to bring in '3rd world' people and pay them less. English is now required too whereas before it was not. The company that I work for has given up on 457s as it is too much hassle and there are virtually no savings to be made.

Australia_bound? Mar 2nd 2010 11:54 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386555)
The workers are usually fly in fly out from Perth and live in Perth. The Pilbabra is a harsh enviroment to live in and not most people's idea of a good place to live for any length of time.

Saying that, Fortescue fly in workers from Melbourne to the Pilbara iron ore mines right now at a cost of around $10K to the workers. The workers like it because they don't have to relocate to Perth and take their kids out of school and leave family and friends behind. This could be a way forward for the new Gorgon/Pluto Gas project.
Some workers fly in and out yes, think you missed my point and went off on a tangent lol still don't see how Pilbara's boom is anything to do with Perth, bar some people who live there come and work up here.
Is lovely up here, loads of open spaces, just a tad on the hot side and don't get all mod cons. A major factor for people not moving up here is house prices AU$750,000 gets you a decent(ish) 4 bed house and rentals are about AU$1,500 a week.
Are starting flights from Karratha to the east coast, so will reduce flight costs for the FIFO people, if the so wish to work up here or are wanted. I know there is a lot of anti FIFO stuff going on in the local media.

nowthat Mar 2nd 2010 12:19 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by jimbo_d (Post 8386696)
Said EPCM company would be the one sounding like a breakfast cereal, they were in trouble in Perth anyway, a lot of noise about a really big job they have but not much of it was being designed in Perth.

I know a few people working for them and there's no mention of favouring a particular type of worker it was whoever was being utilised or not at the time who got the chop.
That's correct, cereal :D
Their part of Gorgon project was almost exclusively designed in UK


'Utilisation' (= work assignment -> manhours -> utilisation -> sink or swim) is at the sole discretion of the management so they can (indirectly?) "choose" the preferred personnel.
I also know a few guys who either worked or are still working for the company in question. They do not have too many projects until now.

nicolamoon Mar 2nd 2010 12:27 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8386827)
Some workers fly in and out yes, think you missed my point and went off on a tangent lol still don't see how Pilbara's boom is anything to do with Perth, bar some people who live there come and work up here.
Is lovely up here, loads of open spaces, just a tad on the hot side and don't get all mod cons. A major factor for people not moving up here is house prices AU$750,000 gets you a decent(ish) 4 bed house and rentals are about AU$1,500 a week.
Are starting flights from Karratha to the east coast, so will reduce flight costs for the FIFO people, if the so wish to work up here or are wanted. I know there is a lot of anti FIFO stuff going on in the local media.
Drop the fifos and the wages will drop like like a hookers undies , its the wa factor house prices here in perth because of the resource industry wages are high , soon as the se east asians start coming they will cut the money , they are not bothered its work for them , there is not a skills shortage but a cheap skills shortage

mally

keel Mar 2nd 2010 12:40 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
One of the problems with the 457 visa's is that they last for 4 (I think) years. It's a binding contract that says the employer must keep them in a job for that length of time.

I know a specialist Engineering consultancy who couldn't find a suitable qualified Australian Engineer so they 457'd an Indian Engineer. He is absolutely hopeless at his job but they are forced to keep him. He is now used for general clerical work. This consultancy will not be making the same mistake again and still have to find somebody to do this work.

Keel

Bermudashorts Mar 2nd 2010 1:10 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by keel (Post 8386937)
One of the problems with the 457 visa's is that they last for 4 (I think) years. It's a binding contract that says the employer must keep them in a job for that length of time.

I know a specialist Engineering consultancy who couldn't find a suitable qualified Australian Engineer so they 457'd an Indian Engineer. He is absolutely hopeless at his job but they are forced to keep him. He is now used for general clerical work. This consultancy will not be making the same mistake again and still have to find somebody to do this work.

Keel

A 457 can be up to 4 years, but it does not have to be. And it is no more binding than anyone else's employment contract.


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