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Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by lonndongeek
(Post 8389129)
This is an english speaking forum.
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Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by pomtastic
(Post 8386587)
I've heard similar rumours about the IT industry in Sydney. Indian workers on 457's taken in preference over Australian workers...
What happens is that in theory, immigration is said to be "tough" enough to allow citizens and residents to have preferential job treatment. In reality, it's the corporations who lobby the government and throw money at them who make the laws to favour whatever group of workers they want to bring in. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by nowthat
(Post 8388900)
An Australian view, definitely
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Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by snowbunny
(Post 8389177)
Same has been happening for 20 years in the US. Requiring English is no bar to entry in this case. This has decimated many areas of IT and it precipitated the offshoring movement.
What happens is that in theory, immigration is said to be "tough" enough to allow citizens and residents to have preferential job treatment. In reality, it's the corporations who lobby the government and throw money at them who make the laws to favour whatever group of workers they want to bring in. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by lonndongeek
(Post 8389129)
This is an english speaking forum.
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Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by ABCDiamond
(Post 8389183)
You know with certainty, the nationality of the poster then ?
But the probability is high ;) |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by bcworld
(Post 8388976)
Truth? Yes - but hardly a revelation. I also wouldn't call it a back door.
A 457 under the correct circumstances is a legitimate route to PR, in the same way PR is a legitimate route to citizenship. The Feb 7 changes provide for even faster processing of employment-sponsored applications (457). A political will seems to exist to give preference to these candidates but is there a system that verifies that jobs on offer can be taken by Australians first (see 457 visa definition)? So far it looks like only the employers use their sole discretion to determine this. This may as well be an obvious conflict of interest as - one would assume - their main criterion will be the profit maximization (thus lower salaries). |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by nowthat
(Post 8389412)
I agree but 457 is a temporary work visa (permit) for those candidates who offer skills/expertise that cannot be found locally. It seems that in some cases these jobs can be offered to Australians who otherwise become/remain unemployed. But they are not since the employer chooses to nominate a foreigner. The reason ... perhaps lower wages/salary?
The Feb 7 changes provide for even faster processing of employment-sponsored applications (457). A political will seems to exist to give preference to these candidates but is there a system that verifies that jobs on offer can be taken by Australians first (see 457 visa definition)? So far it looks like only the employers use their sole discretion to determine this. This may as well be an obvious conflict of interest as - one would assume - their main criterion will be the profit maximization (thus lower salaries). Addtionally are you aware of the rules around market rates? It is a requirement of the 457 sponsorship that the employee is paid at least market rate. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
I'm sorry but I'm going to stir the waters here. There is a constant thread of 'lower salaries' running through this. In three years of working in the mining industry on major projects, I have not seen one single person paid a lower salary, either manual or non-manual. It's a complete urban legend, the same as it was in the UK. There are always the 2% that don't conform to this, but the massive majority of times, it just doesn't work like this.
When it comes to lay offs, most employers work on a person by person approach. If you're productive and easy to supervise, you'll very likely be kept. The reverse is also true. Passports don't generally come into it. Add the well publicised problems on the Gorgon projects from the wonderful unions and it's no wonder that people on 457 visas are retained. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by TheRutters
(Post 8389542)
When it comes to lay offs, most employers work on a person by person approach. If you're productive and easy to supervise, you'll very likely be kept. The reverse is also true. Passports don't generally come into it.
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Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by snowbunny
(Post 8390033)
Isn't this a slippery slope meaning that workers who keep their mouths shut about lower pay, long hours or dangerous working conditions will be retained over those that don't?
You need to lay off 1 of your 5 workers. Are you going to choose one of the four who gets on quietly with their job and is productive, or the loudmouth constantly banging on about what they're 'entitled' to? "productive and easy to supervise" isn't the same as keeping your mouth shout about lower pay, long hours or dangerous working conditions. Cheers Steve |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by lonndongeek
(Post 8391567)
Think about it from the employer's point of view...
You need to lay off 1 of your 5 workers. Are you going to choose one of the four who gets on quietly with their job and is productive, or the loudmouth constantly banging on about what they're 'entitled' to? "productive and easy to supervise" isn't the same as keeping your mouth shout about lower pay, long hours or dangerous working conditions. Cheers Steve Yep, but at the same time there ARE capable Australians (co-workers) to do the same job so the foreigners should not receive preferred treatment (keep their jobs) as this contradicts the very principle upon which 457 visas were issued. Visa 457 - temporary work permit in a situation where local skills/expertise cannot be found. Does it not mean that when the push come to shove, the first individuals to be considered for retrenchment should be foreigners? If you worked in China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore (although the situation changes there recently there with a push for PRC workers - to the discontent of the electorate) you would know how the foreign personnel is being treated when the going gets tough. You are shown the door as local citizens are protected. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by nowthat
(Post 8391637)
Visa 457 - temporary work permit in a situation where local skills/expertise cannot be found.
Originally Posted by nowthat
(Post 8391637)
You are shown the door as local citizens are protected.
The whole argument of 457'ers getting kept and Aussies laid off is frankly small scale. It really isn't the problem people think it is. In terms of jobs and dollars, the bigger issue, especially in EPCM Engineering is the amount of skilled manual and technical work going offshore. This odd 457'er taking a job probably totals less than 2000 accross Australia, offshoring work is running into millions of man hours accross the Engineering industry. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by pomtastic
(Post 8386555)
The workers are usually fly in fly out from Perth and live in Perth. The Pilbabra is a harsh enviroment to live in and not most people's idea of a good place to live for any length of time.
Saying that, Fortescue fly in workers from Melbourne to the Pilbara iron ore mines right now at a cost of around $10K to the workers. The workers like it because they don't have to relocate to Perth and take their kids out of school and leave family and friends behind. This could be a way forward for the new Gorgon/Pluto Gas project. |
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
Originally Posted by Australia_bound?
(Post 8386827)
Some workers fly in and out yes, think you missed my point and went off on a tangent lol still don't see how Pilbara's boom is anything to do with Perth, bar some people who live there come and work up here.
Is lovely up here, loads of open spaces, just a tad on the hot side and don't get all mod cons. A major factor for people not moving up here is house prices AU$750,000 gets you a decent(ish) 4 bed house and rentals are about AU$1,500 a week. Are starting flights from Karratha to the east coast, so will reduce flight costs for the FIFO people, if the so wish to work up here or are wanted. I know there is a lot of anti FIFO stuff going on in the local media. |
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