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-   -   Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara (https://britishexpats.com/forum/australia-54/fury-migrant-workers-keep-jobs-pilbara-657352/)

pomtastic Mar 2nd 2010 4:24 am
Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
This is interesting, 70 Filipinos kept their jobs for a Chinese iron ore contractor in the Pilbara while 54 Australians lost theirs jobs.

Are the Filipinios getting paid less than the Australians, therefore cheaper to keep on and an economic decision?

Will this be a continuing trend with the coming so called skills shortage, import cheaper skilled labour on 457 visas?

Perhaps the Filipinos work harder than the Aussies?

Are the Chinese basically telling the unions that they can employ anyone they want so they better not strike or demand high wages?

This could blow up.

http://www.news.com.au/business/fury...-1225835912621

Fury as migrant workers keep jobs

From: The Australian March 02, 2010 8:39AM

An industrial dispute is brewing in the Pilbara / File Source: The Australian
INDUSTRIAL tensions in the Pilbara are escalating after an engineering contractor sacked 54 Australian workers at a $5.2 billion Chinese-owned iron ore project while retaining up to 70 Filipinos with similar skills.

The Australian Manufacturing Workers Union will today meet representatives of the Adelaide-based Ottoway Engineering in a bid to find out why migrant workers are apparently being favoured ahead of locals at Citic Pacific's mine at Cape Preston, near Karratha, The Australian reports.

The AMWU says the Australian workers were "irate" after being told last week they had been retrenched.

The controversy adds to weeks of mounting industrial friction in the region, with workers at Woodside's $12bn Pluto gas project walking off the job last month in protest against their accommodation arrangements.

Amazulu Mar 2nd 2010 4:33 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386088)
This is interesting, 70 Filipinos kept their jobs for a Chinese iron ore contractor in the Pilbara while 54 Australians lost theirs jobs.

Are the Filipinios getting paid less than the Australians, therefore cheaper to keep on and an economic decision?

Will this be a continuing trend with the coming so called skills shortage, import cheaper skilled labour on 457 visas?

Perhaps the Filipinos work harder than the Aussies?

Are the Chinese basically telling the unions that they can employ anyone they want so they better not strike or demand high wages?

This could blow up.

http://www.news.com.au/business/fury...-1225835912621
There are many aspects to this story. Some of the Filipinos are Aussies PRs and some are even citizens - so if the union is protesting against them then they are being racist or need to get their facts right. The Chinese might own the company but they still have to adhere to Australian labour law, HS&E regualtions deal with Australian unions etc. Hence we don't have mine sites with 1000s of Chinese working on them - fi they could get do this they would, but they can't. Many Australian and other international companies doing business here use 457s in preference to local labour - and as long as our government allows this it will continue.

Weebie Mar 2nd 2010 7:02 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Apparently it was only 13 filopino workers but none the less this is a potential shitstorm which could force the government to "crack down" on immigration

Also If Perth is susposed to "Boom" again why are people being laid off???

Amazulu Mar 2nd 2010 7:11 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 8386292)
Also If Perth is susposed to "Boom" again why are people being laid off???
I think there's more to this story than what has been reported.

nowthat Mar 2nd 2010 8:07 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
The same thing keeps going on in Perth (and all over Australia?) as well. For example, American EPCM company that relocated recently to 100 StGeorges retrenched many Australian (and legal residents) engineers while retaining Chinese, Filipino, Malaysian etc workers who are on 457. Local engineers with local accreditation and/or registration were de facto replaced by foreigners with similar qualifications.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't 457 visa meant for those candidates who offer expertise that cannot be found locally? What really happened/happens is a clear contradiction as - in many cases - locals were replaced by foreigners with similar experience and qualifications. Shouldn't these jobs - by definition - have been offered to locals first? The reason this did not (and is not) happen is so obvious that I think I do not need to spell it out :)

Slowly does it become a political issue, am I in the wrong?

Australia_bound? Mar 2nd 2010 8:19 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 8386292)

Also If Perth is susposed to "Boom" again why are people being laid off???
What does something that's happening over a 1000km from Perth have to do with Perth? It is booming in the Pilbara, they'll all have jobs again in a few weeks. Just me who's struggling as not my sector :eek:

pomtastic Mar 2nd 2010 9:29 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8386408)
What does something that's happening over a 1000km from Perth have to do with Perth? It is booming in the Pilbara, they'll all have jobs again in a few weeks. Just me who's struggling as not my sector :eek:
The workers are usually fly in fly out from Perth and live in Perth. The Pilbabra is a harsh enviroment to live in and not most people's idea of a good place to live for any length of time.

Saying that, Fortescue fly in workers from Melbourne to the Pilbara iron ore mines right now at a cost of around $10K to the workers. The workers like it because they don't have to relocate to Perth and take their kids out of school and leave family and friends behind. This could be a way forward for the new Gorgon/Pluto Gas project.

pomtastic Mar 2nd 2010 9:44 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nowthat (Post 8386387)
The same thing keeps going on in Perth (and all over Australia?) as well. For example, American EPCM company that relocated recently to 100 StGeorges retrenched many Australian (and legal residents) engineers while retaining Chinese, Filipino, Malaysian etc workers who are on 457. Local engineers with local accreditation and/or registration were de facto replaced by foreigners with similar qualifications.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't 457 visa meant for those candidates who offer expertise that cannot be found locally? What really happened/happens is a clear contradiction as - in many cases - locals were replaced by foreigners with similar experience and qualifications. Shouldn't these jobs - by definition - have been offered to locals first? The reason this did not (and is not) happen is so obvious that I think I do not need to spell it out :)

Slowly does it become a political issue, am I in the wrong?
I've heard similar rumours about the IT industry in Sydney. Indian workers on 457's taken in preference over Australian workers. Australian workers getting laid off.

My thinking is, Australians are paid relatively huge salarys which is now affecting global competitiveness amongst Aus companies. Exactly the same happened in the UK circa 1998 when plumbers in the UK press were reportedly earning £100K a year because of a skills shortage. A couple of years later, Polish and European tradesmen flooded the UK and offered their skills at half the price because they were able to.

I was also wondering if these stories that are coming out now are a result of the coming Aus election, i.e planted for a reason and exaggerated just to gain votes for the party with a strong immigration policy.

jimbo_d Mar 2nd 2010 10:36 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386587)
I've heard similar rumours about the IT industry in Sydney. Indian workers on 457's taken in preference over Australian workers. Australian workers getting laid off.

My thinking is, Australians are paid relatively huge salarys which is now affecting global competitiveness amongst Aus companies. Exactly the same happened in the UK circa 1998 when plumbers in the UK press were reportedly earning £100K a year because of a skills shortage. A couple of years later, Polish and European tradesmen flooded the UK and offered their skills at half the price because they were able to.

I was also wondering if these stories that are coming out now are a result of the coming Aus election, i.e planted for a reason and exaggerated just to gain votes for the party with a strong immigration policy.
The same party who brought in 457 visas?

This story has been blown out of proportion, whilst it has happened in the past at the shipyard, it's not something going on everywhere. 457s are now workplace tested on application, which from 2005-2009 they weren't. I've read that some of the Filipinos are actually PR or citizens anyway.

Said EPCM company would be the one sounding like a breakfast cereal, they were in trouble in Perth anyway, a lot of noise about a really big job they have but not much of it was being designed in Perth. I know a few people working for them and there's no mention of favouring a particular type of worker it was whoever was being utilised or not at the time who got the chop.

Amazulu Mar 2nd 2010 11:33 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by jimbo_d (Post 8386696)
The same party who brought in 457 visas?

This story has been blown out of proportion, whilst it has happened in the past at the shipyard, it's not something going on everywhere. 457s are now workplace tested on application, which from 2005-2009 they weren't. I've read that some of the Filipinos are actually PR or citizens anyway.

Said EPCM company would be the one sounding like a breakfast cereal, they were in trouble in Perth anyway, a lot of noise about a really big job they have but not much of it was being designed in Perth. I know a few people working for them and there's no mention of favouring a particular type of worker it was whoever was being utilised or not at the time who got the chop.
Well said. The new 457 rules mean that it is going to be much harder to bring in '3rd world' people and pay them less. English is now required too whereas before it was not. The company that I work for has given up on 457s as it is too much hassle and there are virtually no savings to be made.

Australia_bound? Mar 2nd 2010 11:54 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386555)
The workers are usually fly in fly out from Perth and live in Perth. The Pilbabra is a harsh enviroment to live in and not most people's idea of a good place to live for any length of time.

Saying that, Fortescue fly in workers from Melbourne to the Pilbara iron ore mines right now at a cost of around $10K to the workers. The workers like it because they don't have to relocate to Perth and take their kids out of school and leave family and friends behind. This could be a way forward for the new Gorgon/Pluto Gas project.
Some workers fly in and out yes, think you missed my point and went off on a tangent lol still don't see how Pilbara's boom is anything to do with Perth, bar some people who live there come and work up here.
Is lovely up here, loads of open spaces, just a tad on the hot side and don't get all mod cons. A major factor for people not moving up here is house prices AU$750,000 gets you a decent(ish) 4 bed house and rentals are about AU$1,500 a week.
Are starting flights from Karratha to the east coast, so will reduce flight costs for the FIFO people, if the so wish to work up here or are wanted. I know there is a lot of anti FIFO stuff going on in the local media.

nowthat Mar 2nd 2010 12:19 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by jimbo_d (Post 8386696)
Said EPCM company would be the one sounding like a breakfast cereal, they were in trouble in Perth anyway, a lot of noise about a really big job they have but not much of it was being designed in Perth.

I know a few people working for them and there's no mention of favouring a particular type of worker it was whoever was being utilised or not at the time who got the chop.
That's correct, cereal :D
Their part of Gorgon project was almost exclusively designed in UK


'Utilisation' (= work assignment -> manhours -> utilisation -> sink or swim) is at the sole discretion of the management so they can (indirectly?) "choose" the preferred personnel.
I also know a few guys who either worked or are still working for the company in question. They do not have too many projects until now.

nicolamoon Mar 2nd 2010 12:27 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8386827)
Some workers fly in and out yes, think you missed my point and went off on a tangent lol still don't see how Pilbara's boom is anything to do with Perth, bar some people who live there come and work up here.
Is lovely up here, loads of open spaces, just a tad on the hot side and don't get all mod cons. A major factor for people not moving up here is house prices AU$750,000 gets you a decent(ish) 4 bed house and rentals are about AU$1,500 a week.
Are starting flights from Karratha to the east coast, so will reduce flight costs for the FIFO people, if the so wish to work up here or are wanted. I know there is a lot of anti FIFO stuff going on in the local media.
Drop the fifos and the wages will drop like like a hookers undies , its the wa factor house prices here in perth because of the resource industry wages are high , soon as the se east asians start coming they will cut the money , they are not bothered its work for them , there is not a skills shortage but a cheap skills shortage

mally

keel Mar 2nd 2010 12:40 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
One of the problems with the 457 visa's is that they last for 4 (I think) years. It's a binding contract that says the employer must keep them in a job for that length of time.

I know a specialist Engineering consultancy who couldn't find a suitable qualified Australian Engineer so they 457'd an Indian Engineer. He is absolutely hopeless at his job but they are forced to keep him. He is now used for general clerical work. This consultancy will not be making the same mistake again and still have to find somebody to do this work.

Keel

Bermudashorts Mar 2nd 2010 1:10 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by keel (Post 8386937)
One of the problems with the 457 visa's is that they last for 4 (I think) years. It's a binding contract that says the employer must keep them in a job for that length of time.

I know a specialist Engineering consultancy who couldn't find a suitable qualified Australian Engineer so they 457'd an Indian Engineer. He is absolutely hopeless at his job but they are forced to keep him. He is now used for general clerical work. This consultancy will not be making the same mistake again and still have to find somebody to do this work.

Keel

A 457 can be up to 4 years, but it does not have to be. And it is no more binding than anyone else's employment contract.

Pollyana Mar 2nd 2010 3:21 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by keel (Post 8386937)
One of the problems with the 457 visa's is that they last for 4 (I think) years. It's a binding contract that says the employer must keep them in a job for that length of time.

I know a specialist Engineering consultancy who couldn't find a suitable qualified Australian Engineer so they 457'd an Indian Engineer. He is absolutely hopeless at his job but they are forced to keep him. He is now used for general clerical work. This consultancy will not be making the same mistake again and still have to find somebody to do this work.

Keel
In addition to Bermudashorts' reply, it could well be that he - and his employer - are breaking the terms of the 457 if he is not still doing the job he was paid to do.

nicolamoon Mar 2nd 2010 3:26 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Total bulldhit asa they wpold ship him out and pay relocation costs nust be cheaper than krrpin y=the oik on ,they have a get out clause if they are noy up to the job ie looks good on paper but practically bit like george micjael to a woman lol

Dreamy Mar 2nd 2010 6:53 pm
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by keel (Post 8386937)
One of the problems with the 457 visa's is that they last for 4 (I think) years. It's a binding contract that says the employer must keep them in a job for that length of time.

I know a specialist Engineering consultancy who couldn't find a suitable qualified Australian Engineer so they 457'd an Indian Engineer. He is absolutely hopeless at his job but they are forced to keep him. He is now used for general clerical work. This consultancy will not be making the same mistake again and still have to find somebody to do this work.

Keel
Load of rubbish.

Employees on 457s can be retrenched/sacked the same as any other worker.

We're here on a 457 at the moment (PR app goes in beginning of next week!) - and the industry I was working in up in Brisbane used a lot of TR workers. You'd think - oh, its cost the company a fair whack to get you out here, they'll care about keeping you.. but its not the case. Soon as the work drops off, you stand and fall on your ability, just like any other worker. Difference is, if you're retrenched/sacked, you have 28 days to find another employer willing to sponsor you again or it's "Au Revoir Australia".

Weebie Mar 3rd 2010 1:08 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8386827)
Some workers fly in and out yes, think you missed my point and went off on a tangent lol still don't see how Pilbara's boom is anything to do with Perth, bar some people who live there come and work up here.
Is lovely up here, loads of open spaces, just a tad on the hot side and don't get all mod cons. A major factor for people not moving up here is house prices AU$750,000 gets you a decent(ish) 4 bed house and rentals are about AU$1,500 a week.
Are starting flights from Karratha to the east coast, so will reduce flight costs for the FIFO people, if the so wish to work up here or are wanted. I know there is a lot of anti FIFO stuff going on in the local media.
Pilburas boom has absolutely everything to do with Perth. Perth is nothing without thsi boom.

Lord_Farquar Mar 3rd 2010 1:13 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 8388837)
Pilburas boom has absolutely everything to do with Perth. Perth is nothing without thsi boom.
Also isn't Perth also the capital of WA? :rofl:

Maybe the WA government should be told it has nothing to do with the Pilbura.

nowthat Mar 3rd 2010 1:44 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
There's an interesting debate going on:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/...-1225835904562


Quote:
Fact Posted at 12:47 PM Today

Most of these people coming into Australia on these 457 visa's are using it as a means of coming through the back door, to gain permanent residencey (sic), just like the foreign student racket.

Comment 223 of 224
End quote

Truth, possibly?
An Australian view, definitely

Lord_Farquar Mar 3rd 2010 1:50 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nowthat (Post 8388900)
There's an interesting debate going on:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business/...-1225835904562


Quote:
Fact Posted at 12:47 PM Today

Most of these people coming into Australia on these 457 visa's are using it as a means of coming through the back door, to gain permanent residencey (sic), just like the foreign student racket.

Comment 223 of 224
End quote

Truth, possibly?
An Australian view, definitely
My wife and I came to Australia on a 457 and now both have Perm Res.

bcworld Mar 3rd 2010 2:17 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nowthat (Post 8388900)
Truth, possibly?
An Australian view, definitely
Truth? Yes - but hardly a revelation. I also wouldn't call it a back door.

A 457 under the correct circumstances is a legitimate route to PR, in the same way PR is a legitimate route to citizenship.

Lord_Farquar Mar 3rd 2010 2:25 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nicolamoon (Post 8387299)
Total bulldhit asa they wpold ship him out and pay relocation costs nust be cheaper than krrpin y=the oik on ,they have a get out clause if they are noy up to the job ie looks good on paper but practically bit like george micjael to a woman lol
What?

Australia_bound? Mar 3rd 2010 2:37 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Lord_Farquar (Post 8388843)
Also isn't Perth also the capital of WA? :rofl:

Maybe the WA government should be told it has nothing to do with the Pilbura.

Sorry to need to explain this to you, but did you not read the random quote about "If Perth is to boom again why are people being laid off". Made by Weebie. Also have to point out my question was to him/her, not someone who joined the thread and couldn't be arsed reading it, then have a sarcastic dig. If 50 people are laid off over 1000km away from Perth why would it affect the boom there?
Oh and it's Pilbara not Pilbura :rofl:

Australia_bound? Mar 3rd 2010 2:41 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Weebie (Post 8388837)
Pilburas boom has absolutely everything to do with Perth. Perth is nothing without thsi boom.
The boom in the Pilbara will continue with the migrant workers helping raise loads of money for state & national governments to take most of it for their own ends.
Still not sure how 50 people being laid off is going to affect a boom in a City over 1000km away.
Pretty certain London had quite a few booms when the North of England was laying people off left right & centre. As I said most of them will have new jobs within weeks. Are always jobs available up here in the mining sector.

Lord_Farquar Mar 3rd 2010 2:45 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8389013)
Sorry to need to explain this to you, but did you not read the random quote about "If Perth is to boom again why are people being laid off". Made by Weebie. Also have to point out my question was to him/her, not someone who joined the thread and couldn't be arsed reading it, then have a sarcastic dig. If 50 people are laid off over 1000km away from Perth why would it affect the boom there?
Oh and it's Pilbara not Pilbura :rofl:
:rofl: It's a free world and I can reply as I please.

Australia_bound? Mar 3rd 2010 3:11 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Lord_Farquar (Post 8389040)
:rofl: It's a free world and I can reply as I please.
Yes you can, but if you want to be sarcastic, please enlighten yourself with a few facts, rather than making yourself come across as a bit of a dimwit, who's trying to be a smart arse :thumbsup:

Lord_Farquar Mar 3rd 2010 3:14 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by Australia_bound? (Post 8389111)
Yes you can, but if you want to be sarcastic, please enlighten yourself with a few facts, rather than making yourself come across as a bit of a dimwit, who's trying to be a smart arse :thumbsup:
Calm down sweetheart.

I was only having a bit of fun.

lonndongeek Mar 3rd 2010 3:20 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nicolamoon (Post 8387299)
Total bulldhit asa they wpold ship him out and pay relocation costs nust be cheaper than krrpin y=the oik on ,they have a get out clause if they are noy up to the job ie looks good on paper but practically bit like george micjael to a woman lol
This is an english speaking forum.

Lord_Farquar Mar 3rd 2010 3:28 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by lonndongeek (Post 8389129)
This is an english speaking forum.
Glad it's not just me!

snowbunny Mar 3rd 2010 3:49 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by pomtastic (Post 8386587)
I've heard similar rumours about the IT industry in Sydney. Indian workers on 457's taken in preference over Australian workers...
Same has been happening for 20 years in the US. Requiring English is no bar to entry in this case. This has decimated many areas of IT and it precipitated the offshoring movement.

What happens is that in theory, immigration is said to be "tough" enough to allow citizens and residents to have preferential job treatment. In reality, it's the corporations who lobby the government and throw money at them who make the laws to favour whatever group of workers they want to bring in.

ABCDiamond Mar 3rd 2010 3:52 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nowthat (Post 8388900)
An Australian view, definitely
You know with certainty, the nationality of the poster then ?

pomtastic Mar 3rd 2010 3:52 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by snowbunny (Post 8389177)
Same has been happening for 20 years in the US. Requiring English is no bar to entry in this case. This has decimated many areas of IT and it precipitated the offshoring movement.

What happens is that in theory, immigration is said to be "tough" enough to allow citizens and residents to have preferential job treatment. In reality, it's the corporations who lobby the government and throw money at them who make the laws to favour whatever group of workers they want to bring in.
I think your statement here completely nails it, the big corporations do what they like, they have the ultimate power.

pomtastic Mar 3rd 2010 3:56 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by lonndongeek (Post 8389129)
This is an english speaking forum.
Perhaps the poster had a few too many bottles of wine, easily done, just like texting when your drunk, good idea at the time but bad news when you read back your sent messages. :eek:

nowthat Mar 3rd 2010 5:39 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by ABCDiamond (Post 8389183)
You know with certainty, the nationality of the poster then ?
I stand corrected :ohmy:
But the probability is high ;)

nowthat Mar 3rd 2010 6:01 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by bcworld (Post 8388976)
Truth? Yes - but hardly a revelation. I also wouldn't call it a back door.

A 457 under the correct circumstances is a legitimate route to PR, in the same way PR is a legitimate route to citizenship.
I agree but 457 is a temporary work visa (permit) for those candidates who offer skills/expertise that cannot be found locally. It seems that in some cases these jobs can be offered to Australians who otherwise become/remain unemployed. But they are not since the employer chooses to nominate a foreigner. The reason ... perhaps lower wages/salary?

The Feb 7 changes provide for even faster processing of employment-sponsored applications (457). A political will seems to exist to give preference to these candidates but is there a system that verifies that jobs on offer can be taken by Australians first (see 457 visa definition)? So far it looks like only the employers use their sole discretion to determine this. This may as well be an obvious conflict of interest as - one would assume - their main criterion will be the profit maximization (thus lower salaries).

Bermudashorts Mar 3rd 2010 7:24 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by nowthat (Post 8389412)
I agree but 457 is a temporary work visa (permit) for those candidates who offer skills/expertise that cannot be found locally. It seems that in some cases these jobs can be offered to Australians who otherwise become/remain unemployed. But they are not since the employer chooses to nominate a foreigner. The reason ... perhaps lower wages/salary?

The Feb 7 changes provide for even faster processing of employment-sponsored applications (457). A political will seems to exist to give preference to these candidates but is there a system that verifies that jobs on offer can be taken by Australians first (see 457 visa definition)? So far it looks like only the employers use their sole discretion to determine this. This may as well be an obvious conflict of interest as - one would assume - their main criterion will be the profit maximization (thus lower salaries).
Do you know this for sure? I spend a lot of time reading the immigration forum, here and elsewhere. A lot of people come along thinking it will be easy to pick up 457 sponsorship but they swiftly return to earth with a bump. It is pretty difficult for most people with PR already to secure a role before arriving in Australia, never mind sponsorship. The Australian employers do prefer to recruit locally first as far as I can tell as it is a lot quicker and easier.

Addtionally are you aware of the rules around market rates? It is a requirement of the 457 sponsorship that the employee is paid at least market rate.

TheRutters Mar 3rd 2010 7:27 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
I'm sorry but I'm going to stir the waters here. There is a constant thread of 'lower salaries' running through this. In three years of working in the mining industry on major projects, I have not seen one single person paid a lower salary, either manual or non-manual. It's a complete urban legend, the same as it was in the UK. There are always the 2% that don't conform to this, but the massive majority of times, it just doesn't work like this.

When it comes to lay offs, most employers work on a person by person approach. If you're productive and easy to supervise, you'll very likely be kept. The reverse is also true. Passports don't generally come into it.

Add the well publicised problems on the Gorgon projects from the wonderful unions and it's no wonder that people on 457 visas are retained.

snowbunny Mar 3rd 2010 11:30 am
Re: Fury as Migrant Workers Keep Jobs in Pilbara
 
Originally Posted by TheRutters (Post 8389542)
When it comes to lay offs, most employers work on a person by person approach. If you're productive and easy to supervise, you'll very likely be kept. The reverse is also true. Passports don't generally come into it.
Isn't this a slippery slope meaning that workers who keep their mouths shut about lower pay, long hours or dangerous working conditions will be retained over those that don't?


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