Flutterby

This is a very bizarre post, I don't see any left wing ranting here, just people who are concerned about civil liberties expressing their opinions.

Tableland

Like Hutch pointed out, I suppose I would hope my muggers would in the 3% that are caught using CCTV.

Who knows? They might be grateful for some specific CCTV footage, but this doesn't mean to say they would support a government putting cameras in their toilets or in the voting booths.

You might have noticed that our objections are being made against a socialist party and its policy on surveillance. How does this make one Left wing?

Hutch

Why? Will the camera detach itself from the wall and go and apprehend the villians, because it sure as shit won't deter them.

Or indeed, JFK or Stalin or, for that matter, Jesus Christ himself.

Civil liberties have nothing to do with political leanings one way or the other. You seem to be perfectly happy with the concept of a government that spies on your every move - where nothing you do is private - where your every movement is monitored. I'm not.

Despite the fact that it's been shown again and again to have bugger all effect on the crime figures. You think some crackhead, suffering withdrawl and in need of money for his next fix is going to think twice about mugging someone because there's a camera up a pole?

Something I wish governments would do.

Tableland

Fat chance of this happening though. They're bringing fingerprint scanners on to the streets soon in the UK.

Gattaca, anyone?

tictac

Further to Hutch's 3rd point re internet censorship:

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...13-952,00.html

"THE Federal Government will make internet censorship compulsory for all Australians and could ban controversial websites on euthanasia or anorexia.

Australia's level of net censorship will put it in the same league as countries including China, Cuba, Iran and North Korea, and the Government will not let users opt out of the proposed national internet filter when it is introduced.

Broadband, Communications and Digital Economy Minister Stephen Conroy admitted the Federal Government's $44.2 million internet censorship plan would now include two tiers - one level of mandatory filtering for all Australians and an optional level that will provide a "clean feed", censoring adult material."


Welcome to the Peoples Republic of Australia

BristolBeary

It irks me somewhat people moaning about this kind of stuff - when someone in your family gets beaten senseless or your wife gets sexually assaulted and CCTV catches the person responsible will you still moan about it ?

I don't care if it only helps catch 3% of people - thats better than 0%.

tictac

Thing is, most of these CCTV cameras are fitted with crappy lenses which do not allow for the easy identification of suspects

How many times have you watched "Crimewatch" rogues gallery and thought "that could be anyone"?!

the troubadour

[QUOTE=jond;6916825]A close friend of mine in the UK owns a firm that fits CCTV cameras, you wouldn't imagine the places he has fitted them.
They have ones that look like smoke alarms that are fitted in offices to spy on the staff, in changing rooms of shops to check for shoplifters etc etc.

He reckons that if your are in a Town or City in the UK you are never more than 50 meters from a CCTV camera. All it appears to have done is make him quite wealthy.

When I was very young and very nieve I also thought along the lines of " If you haven't done anything wrong etc" with regards to ID cards and CCTV. But as I have grown up, know a lot more about the abuse of these systems I am completely against having my movements and liberty challenged.
There was a reported here in Perth a few years ago where some cretin(s)
doing suvailance work in the CBD |Northbridge area zooming in on courting couples and on intimate occassions and personal moments for own gratification

BadgeIsBack

I remember all this coming up in the early 90s with the Citizen's charters etc.
People in the UK are subjects, not citizens - god knows what Australians are.

It's a case up to recently than rather legislate for, don't legislate against. Other countries in the democratic West have far more rights - even if one in particular has slack gun control and kills people after they have languished on death row!

MTPockets

While I can understand your worries, this sort of viewpoint really frustrates me.

Firstly, I don't understand how issues of civil liberties are in any way akin to a left wing viewpoint (and for what it's worth it would be pretty easy to argue that a 'big brother' focus on surveillance is more 'left wing' in the first place). Anyway, either argument misses the point as some issues are so fundamental that it necessitates looking beyond any preconceived political stance. For example my ideals are libertarian anarchism (which you could argue is very left wing, or very right wing, depending how you look at it). But the point is I value liberty as a necessary freedom far higher than any adherence to a simple political view

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/
They discuss a number of these issues far more eloquently than I ever can.

Secondly, we live in a world where policies are increasingly formed and actioned on the basis of media sensationalism, political soundbites and the short-term nature of the political structure. The root causes of crime are seldom addressed with any real solutions. Instead of simply thinking you can cut crime by checking up on people more often (which doesn't generally work anyway, it merely transfers crime to an other area) there needs to be a re-assessment of social opportunities, education, healthcare, housing, parenting in order to endure we're all given the same opportunities to not resort to crime in the first place. Yes it will cost money, yes it will take time and yes there will always be crime of many kinds (some, as you descibe, truly heinous), but we have to decide as a society what we value most?

Pollyana

Worrying isn't it, I've just put the same link on the Barbie thread,

emelems

now this post is actually "spot on"..

Em x

emelems

For me, it comes down to I don't want to be watched 24 hours a day by god knows who.. for me, it is simply that black and white... and I find it offensive to be told by anyone that because I don't wish to be watched in this manner, I am going to commit a crime or be a victim of a horrendous attack..

Doesnt make me leftwinged either in my opinion..

Em x

jond

I totally agree, I also haven't done too much wrong but the thought of big brother watching over me makes me quite angry.

On the subject of CCTV who actually knows anyone who has had a crime solved by them?

As I said in an earlier post my mates who fits them mainly does them for employers who want to spy on their staff.

John

bigAPE

The government are bringing this in under the disguise of "protecting the children" and anyone who feels that this is a retarded way to do it, fears for their freedom or just understands how this will crippled Australians technically in an increasingly Internet driven society is touted as being a paedophile or porn loving freak by ignorant citizens who are buying into the cherry flavoured spin the government is coating this steaming turd with.

They plan to secretly block "illegal" and, more worrying, "inappropriate" content. The question is who is responsible for determining what is "illegal" and "inappropriate" ? Some "pro-life" and/or religiously motivated ministers have already commented on it blocking sites which discuss abortion, euthanasia and anorexia.

The governments own research papers show that the dynamic filters could slow the average Australians Internet service by anything from 30% to 80% (and this is their figures!). So the morons came into power promising super fast internet access for all and their plans to build Australia's next generation broadband service only to gag it and cripple it. Morons.

The government provides free Nanny software to families which perform this service. Now they want to force a $44m initiative on the country which apparently less than 3% of people want. Wouldn't that be better spent on a couple of new schools or a new hospital ?

Read the truth: http://nocleanfeed.com/learn.html



Someone mentioned Bit Torrent being the true cause of the illegal content. Well I use Bit Torrent extensively and it's not for porn or anything else like that. I would guess that the vast VAST majority of people who do use it do so to watch TV shows from overseas. Hardly something that will effect the morality of Australia's children. The vast majority of that sort of bile is traded on private USENET newsgroups and secret peering services, not Bit Torrent.

For the record, I do have two young boys and there is some crap on the Net which scares the hell out of me worrying if they ever saw it, which is why as a parent I take action to use this Nanny software to only allow them access to limited number of sites and services. I monitor their activity and I help/teach them how to surf safely and use the Internet.

All parents who are concerned about their kids use should do the same, take an interested in what your kids are doing rather than palming it off to the government because you can't be arsed to learn yourself.

Australia will become the new China in a heartbeat if this comes in.


Al