Hutch

CCTV has been proven time and again to be ineffective.

"Massive investment in CCTV cameras to prevent crime in the UK has failed to have a significant impact, despite billions of pounds spent on the new technology, a senior police officer piloting a new database has warned. Only 3% of street robberies in London were solved using CCTV images, despite the fact that Britain has more security cameras than any other country in Europe."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/06/ukcrime1

That whole 'stay on the right side of the law' argument is a bit thin too - the vast majority of British citizens are law-abiding and yet they are constantly monitored, spied on and surveiled everywhere they go. Remember the bit in the book 1984 when Winston has to travel to the countryside in order to escape the all-seeing eye of Big Brother - well it's a reality in the UK. Might not bother some people, but I dislike being spied-on while going about my everyday business.

pompeyblonde

I hope this is not too much off topic but one thing that REALLY annoys me is those spotty shop assistants in Coles who insist on looking in your bags!! "The f****n liberty!" or rather lack of.......... I can't believe thay can do that as a matter of course.

sr71

And entirely false too, there is a very good paper out there somewhere which disproves it, wouldn't know where to find it now but it was written by some well known academic.

the troubadour

Absolutley agree with all of the above. Why so many people tend to be so complacent with regards to their cival liberties i find difficult to fathom. So many appear to be under the impression that 'they'meaning the authorities know what is best for all of us and actively desire such intervention leading to further loss of control over our own lives.
Perhaps the media in the case of Australia being less than challenging of government on such issues underlines what appears to be a general lack of concern leading to apathy by far too many people

Petals

My view is that we should be entitled to civil liberties if we behave and live in a manner which is good for all in the community. However this is not the case and we get the laws we deserve. If people could respect others and live in society without bothering other people or causing harm then we would have less policing and laws. Unfortunately the majority get the laws and loss of civil liberty because of the few, well they used to be few not so sure anymore.

jond

A close friend of mine in the UK owns a firm that fits CCTV cameras, you wouldn't imagine the places he has fitted them.
They have ones that look like smoke alarms that are fitted in offices to spy on the staff, in changing rooms of shops to check for shoplifters etc etc.

He reckons that if your are in a Town or City in the UK you are never more than 50 meters from a CCTV camera. All it appears to have done is make him quite wealthy.

When I was very young and very nieve I also thought along the lines of " If you haven't done anything wrong etc" with regards to ID cards and CCTV. But as I have grown up, know a lot more about the abuse of these systems I am completely against having my movements and liberty challenged.

John

CynOpt

That's all well and good as long as the people setting the laws have got a hefty chunk of public interest and oversight.
What about if the law says "Women must wear the hijab" or "protesting against the government is illegal" or "people with X skin/language/cultural heritage are not as good as people with Y"
Then CCTV just keeps the regime in power.

Mugabe, Taleban, et al. must think CCTV is a gift.
And there's no guarantee that we who consider ourselves so open minded, won't end up with some nutter in the top job some day. Then its too late to decide you don't like being watched anymore.
Or how will you know if some news organisations outside your own country might be telling a different story to the one you are being fed at home, if the media and internet control is with the government.
Just because its only 40-60% effective at blocking things at the moment doesn't mean it won't become more effective later.
Oh yes, and it doesn't block most of the really sick stuff at all, cos that is usually distributed using different protocols.

I'm not actually 100% anti CCTV, I just think we need to be very aware of the risks inherent in them prior to letting them be installed and not be scared into having them on every street corner.
Government Controlled firewalls however, I am finding it very hard to think of any good reason for installing something that has no practical benefit whatsoever, except for people too lazy to put parental controls on their own PCs for their own kids protection.
Given that the way the internet operates is that legitimate websites are blockable and illegal ones aren't cos they'll find ways around it. All your doing is sticking the legit traffic in a queue, and letting the evil stuff through on a fast track.

Now just to make you think, which of these should be blocked...
Gun rights/gun sales/weapon sales
pro Choice/pro life activists
Animal rights activists/animal testing
climate change deniers
holocaust deniers
Pro palestinian / pro israeli sites
smut ( and what level )

And do you think everyone you know would agree with you 100%?
Do you think the person setting the rules will agree with you 100%?
Do you think the person setting the rules 5 years from now will agree with you 100%?

<RANT OVER>
Apologies if I've come across as rude, I feel strongly about this.

rodandhayley

plenty of tits on the telly though so im happy

have you seen satisfaction on the telly yet

jond

<RANT OVER>
Apologies if I've come across as rude, I feel strongly about this.[/QUOTE]



I would never have guessed

I agree with you 100% BTW

Lenmil

Watch out as customs may take it off you as it's not legal in Oz. We had the Oz version and not much was taken out.

Hutch

Me too.

If the government do enforce the Great Cyber Rabbit Wall of Australia (c) Me 2008, then I will make it my job to ensure that anyone who wants to has the knowledge to circumvent it, whether it's via VPNs, Tors or off-the-shelf proxy software.

Scuba Steve

Spot on Hutch

emelems

I loathe all the cameras that are about.. hate the fact that councils/media use the "if we don't install them, you are in danger/going to get raped/killed etc" line of argument.. don't agree whatsoever with the "if you've go nothing to hide, you don't have to worry".. have been in situations in the UK where that did NOT wash.. infact, it has now made me realise that it is better to say nothing than say anything..

Can't stand the fact that every shop I go into in Australia has a "search your bag" policy.. wtf? I am guilty until proven innocent???? I find it insulting and offensive, but ho hum.. when in Rome.. etc etc..

But.. I do love the openess of the place.. I love the fact that there may not be any freedom of speech, but the majority of Aussies that get on their soapbox and most of them are oldies, give as good as they get.. love the fact that all love their own state and love to moan about every other place.. love the fact that it doesnt matter what state they live in, they all love to give the Rudd government a really hard time! I love the fact that when I was travelling around highway 1 in our winnebago, we were on the open road for HOURS without civillisation! (we did WA and NT as well as QLD and NSW).. I love that most Australians are honest, laidback p@sstakers and love to give me (pommie) a hardtime whilst being quite endearing!

As you can tell, I love living here.. warts n all!

Em x

The O'Neills

I hope and pray that none of you or your children are ever caught on camera being mugged, raped gunned down or abducted.

I wonder how Jamie Bulger's family feel about CCTV, or Madeline McCanns?

I joined this debate thinking it might be interesting, but actually it has become an opportunity for left wing ranting.

I haven't yet been convinced that CCTV is a menace in society, it is why we need CCTV that is the menace as IMO.

I'll leave you to it, Good luck to all of you.

Kalenge

Spot on!