walla

Hi Mike

The point I was making was that I'll do anything to bring the lolly in. I can't see myself shoveling the brown stuff the rest of my life, if I can't find what I want, or my wife, wants to do we'll come back to the UK.

We are in a more fortunate position than some others as we have close family and friends in Oz. Cuz is a top manager in the field I work in and has set up informal interviews for me as soon as we land. We also have a house to live in from the start so we *should* find the settling process and job finding that little bit easier. I know, famous last words!!

I'm not kidding myself, am under no illusions, as I said in a previous post I'm a realist. To coin a much used phrase on the matter, I'm not going in with rose tinted glasses.

Walla

debsy

Thanks Megs. We have sorted them out.

HiddenPaw

Hi Walla
No - I didn't for one minute think that you were ridiculing people who had returned - my orignal post was in response to Ste&Leigh's comments (about the wheat and the chaft, and the people who can't hack it, returning the UK). I was just pointing out that shovelling shite is an emotional drain, and if people return to the UK - for whatever reason - it doesn't make them a lesser person. I have read the stories of people on the returning to UK forum. I know that the job situation was less than ideal for a lot of them, but I don't recall anyone who returned to the UK because they weren't prepared to shovel the shite (again in response to ste&leigh's comment, not yours!!)

best of luck
regards
HP

Pollyana

What HiddenPaw says is very true. You have to be prepared that the chances are you will be lower down in your field than you were in the UK. I had a very specialist skill and a very respected job, I knew I wouldn't get work using that, but I've also got strong admin skills as well, and have been using them for the last twenty years, mixing with senior police officers and getting a lot of respect from them. Now I have the boss throwing work at me - and he really does throw it - with a very superior air making comments like " type it in Australian not some foreign language" and his new sidekick yesterday asked if I had ever used a holepunch before and did I know how to file alphabetically. One girl there makes a point of speaking very slowly to me, as if I wouldn't be able to understand my mother tongue.
I also have the sick pay situation - 8 days allowed in the first year, building up a few hours a month. After that its unpaid. Holiday builds up too, I now have an entitlement to 72 hours, but am not allowed to take it for several months yet. But as my boss said "you can't afford to go to England, so I don't suppose you'll want any time off anyway"..........

Don't get me wrong, its a job, it almost pays the rent, and its better than no job at all. I do get by because I have a strong survival instinct in there somewhere, and because I knew all along it wouldn't be easy. I don't have the option to move back to the UK, I have to stick it out, but it is very demoralising, for me and for my long-suffering other half.

steandleigh

My original post never mentioned anyone returning to the uk because they 'coulden't hack it' and my comment about people returning to the uk because they aren't prepared to shovel shite was merely an indictation of the fact that so many rely upon their standard of living which has been gained in the uk and are unable to live on lower wages in a less well paid job, so for some they have no choice but to return.

A lot of people expect to have the same standard of living or better in oz than they had in the uk and the reality is that for many it won't materialise.

Not trying to be argumentative or derogetory in anyway, I apologise if my post came across that way.

MikeStanton

Point taken. But, this is not just about lower wages. We all do what we have to do to make ends meet.

Pollyanna's post touches on an even more important area.

Being an immigrant goes deeper than a drop in wages. Whether we like it or not, for those that work, a large part of self-respect comes from the job - what we do, what we've achieved etc. We may all respect toilet cleaners, but how many of us feel this role would enhance our self-esteem?

But for those that are yet to emigrate, imagine being put in a job that you were in say 5, 10 (or more) years ago - say, 2 or 3 levels below where you are now. How does that feel for starters?

Couple that with having to work for some snotty-nosed inexperienced 'manager' and your stress level begins to climb. Stress not high enough? Add in the fact you could be far more qualified than the man/woman you're working for and...well, you may really start to question whether it was all worthwhile.

This happens in the UK too - I've met doctors and engineers that have been driving cabs, doing cleaning jobs etc - it's one of the real down sides of being an immigrant.

hevs

I need HUP to get on his soap box re this. He is so frustrated at the mo, its unbelievable. This coupled with his and the kids first set of birthdays here (without his family) everything still being so unfamilier, living in Narnia etc etc, things seem tougher than they would in the UK

I have to say that somedays it really takes its toll on all of us and you do start to question "what the **** are we doing!!!"

On saying that these are getting further apart now

chippy

I get 0 days holiday per year.
I get 0 days sickness per year.
And thats the way I like it.

I don't see the point of encouraging employees to skive off work.

Megalania

So, there's the problem recognised and described.

Anyone making plans to avoid it?

Anyone been there and got out?

Anyone planed and successfully avoided the trap?

hevs

There could be light at the end of the tunnel for us!!

One thing i will say is that Matt being in the Aussie job market (in an area of his field)has certainly made people look at him more seriously for new placements with definate step ups

Vegemite Kids

Hmmmmmmm - I wonder if this could be why a lot of manufactuing jobs, call centre jobs, IT jobs etc.... are being transferred from UK (and the rest of western Europe) to India, China, Eastern Europe.....

bondipom

Same in Australia.

Vegemite Kids

Siemens workers in Germany this week were given a choice - increase your standard weekly hours from 35 to 40 a week with no extra money, or we move your jobs to Hungary - Guess what ......... (after much grumbling) they accepted the deal (first time since WWII that they havent had a rise in pay and improvement in working conditions)

Not quite the same as shovelling shite I know, but after 5 years working in Germany and hearing the german workers go on about their "rights" and "improving working conditions", its ironic to me to see them back down and take the "shite" in order to keep their jobs.

My point is (and yes I have one) we all (even Kong) will do whats necessary to get by and "shovelling shite" doesnt necessarily mean going all the way back down the career ladder. It can also mean working under conditions you are not accustomed to and are percieved by you as not being so good as before or "back home".

Vegemite Kids

Dont you just love "Globalisation"

Pollyana

Although the culture here seems to encourage the taking of "sickies" I was actually referring to days when someone is genuinely sick. I had quite a nasty illness a couple of months ago, I shouldn't have been at work cos it prolonged the recovery by adding stress etc. But we couldn't afford for me to stay at home, I wasn't even allowed to use the holiday which I had accumulated since I worked there.
I have also been told that as the new pommie employee (their words, not mine) I am at the bottom of the list when requesting holiday for next year. 12 people in the office, before they get to me, all want 4 weeks leave at least, and I am not allowed to overlap with any of them............looks like no holiday next year either.

Mike's reply to my post is very accurate - I have better skills than my manager; my written and spoken English is better by far - yet because he wants to assert himself he returns letters to me to be retyped with misleading wording and appalling punctuation. He makes snide comments about people with degrees ending up doing menial jobs, all that sort of thing.
It does affect your self-esteem. It makes you really frustrated as you watch people doing a job you know you could do better yourself. It takes real determination to apply for jobs and try and sell yourself when your current boss is running you down so much.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have come if I'd known this, but being prepared for it would have helped.