Beoz

I already live in a vibrant city. No need to advise me.

However your friend asking for your advice on the east coast ..... cough ... cough. You live on the other side of the country.

You have so many things wrong with your resent filled, trash rag read, knowledge of Sydney. Maybe he/she was just telling you of their investment thoughts and you took it as seeking advice.

Would you like me to advise them for you?

By the way, there's a good documentary on the ABC called "Streets of your town". It discusses the ever evolving needs and desires of housing in Australia. It may teach you a thing or two.

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/streets-of-your-town/AC1416H001S00

the troubadour

As much as I'm glad to see you using the ABC as a support for your faulty logic, you will be aware it is not the ABC of old. Cut backs have forced them to toe the line and not ask really penetrating questions.


Now you are ever and a day confused about vibrancy. While Sydney may stack up in vibrancy with Australian standards it is not a particularly so in outside comparisons.
You of course confuse yourself in aligning vibrancy and huge population. Plenty of cities of a third of Sydney's population have more vibrancy. It is a matter of design and if people where in mind or pure functionality and the auto ruling supreme.


Why would anybody buy into an over inflated market like Sydney? Plenty of better things to do than be a lemming and follow others over a cliff.


Anyway expect a population intake cut soon.

Beoz

Because we aren't as poor and as tight as you.

As you said yourself, on Australian standards the vibrancy stacks up. Agree, on many international levels its not a New York or a London but if you choose to live in this country, its the best you have, coupled with its easy access to the coast, waterways, mountains, and national parks, if you want the best in this country then that's where its at.

Of course some people are happy with second best (and in your case third or fourth best), and that's absolutely fine. Or some people have work / family requirements in other locations, and that's also fine, and some people would prefer to live outside major cities, and that is also completely cool, but you are the one who continually moans about this topic and others including your current choice of where you live.

If you were happy with where you live then we wouldn't be having this conversation, but you are not, you constantly have bad things to say about Perth, its dull nature, and the like.

As always my advice to you is to seek change. Resentment and jealousy over your inability to afford a quarter acre block with 10km of the city and by the beach, in Sydney is ridiculous and you only have yourself to blame.

BTW, watch the documentary. Its not targeted at this topic, its more about Australian residential architecture, but it gives you a clue as to the changing attitudes.

the troubadour

Forget about London and New York, try even Lisbon, Amsterdam or Madrid.
If you didn't have vested interests we likely wouldn't be having this conversation. Taking that further no conversation beyond the back gate would be valid using that faulty criteria you forever wheel out for some unaccountable reason.
I realise you reside in Sydney , but really can you get your head around something other than framing any argument around real estate. It is tedious and very insular. Sydney may be your Lotus Land, but I get the impression you haven't seen nor experienced much hence the parochialism all too frequent peppers your posts.


There are better places than over worked, over priced Sydney. If you don't want to accept that as you are trapped in that town, so be it. Just face the truth.

Beoz

Comparing Sydney or any Australian city to Amsterdam, Lisbon or Madrid which are rich in historical culture and architecture is hardly worth laying on the table - chalk and cheese. You probably wouldn't even position Amsterdam against Lisbon. Again very different cities. You would be better off positioning it against something a little more along the lines of a US city, LA perhaps. Interestingly beach life in LA doesn't seem to be a priority like it does in Australia.

I would like to live in one of those 3 cities for a while - well Amsterdam not so. Been there done that. Lisbon is great, been several times. Madrid nice, got to pick the season though - would prefer Barcelona. The downside is I would be broke like you, as there's no work, so that would end up being Overpriced Amsterdam, Overpriced Lisbon, Overpriced Madrid without the ability to earn a decent salary like one can in Australia or other more global cities like London or New York..

So in Australia, to get the variety, the work, the vibrancy, the balance, where would you suggest? Personally I think I have found the city with the best of everything but I am open to suggestion.

the troubadour

I'm not at all sure what the fact that the cities I mentioned are rich in historical culture and architecture has to do with their advanced vibrancy. It is not only design, but also culture. Australians tend to be home bodies going to bed early and arising early. Late night promenading not really a cultural feature. I suppose if a large enough component of a more out going culture is introduced, in numbers large enough, that may induce change.


You didn't appear to know Lisbon in an earlier post. Now you claim to have been there several times. No matter. There is more in similarity between Amsterdam and Lisbon than the former with LA. No idea what you refer to. Amsterdam is a rather compact, easy to navigate city with a population of several hundred thousand but loads going on. Well under half the size of Perth, for example, but ten times more things going on. Amsterdam is unlike LA, completely contrary in fact, with regards the car. Walkability is very high. Bicycle use very high. Hard to imagine a city more different from LA.


Instead of reading about such places, may pay to visit and check out real vibrancy. Most European cities these days are hardly cheap. I do recall Portugal when it was a cheap country though .....of course major capitals following a neo liberal economic agenda have all largely becomes to different degrees unaffordable.


As for yet another dig around money, all I can say is that it feels good not having the necessity to work. And yes can live in Europe anytime I chose to return ......


Sydney will indeed get busier, far more crowded, less desirable place to live, but what sort of vibe will that produce? More people poorly planned does not equate a better more vibrant place necessary. Just more competition for a smaller piece of the cake and the likelihood of increased ghettoised neighbourhoods increasingly focused on grounds of race and socio economic positioning.

Beoz

Why on earth would you be comparing LA to either Amsterdam or Lisbon? How bizarre of you.

Some areas of Sydney will indeed get busier. So what? That's vibrancy. Bring it on. If you don't like the vibrancy, move to a quieter part of Sydney or somewhere entirely different.

Just because you have no options in your life, you don't need to assume others share your misery.

the troubadour

Another say nothing post from you apart from further display ignorance. You of course being the one comparing cities. Go visit Europe sometime and see how density really works. You will notice vibrancy as well.


It's not just some areas of Sydney will get busier, it is the already over loaded, socially struggling western suburbs which are planned for massive expansion from the plans I read, not the wealthier burbs, which of course would be out of reach of the 'many thousands of slaves' with little means that the plan is to import.
Luckily I do have choices and Sydney would not be one of them. I am yet to read such ignorance from even Big Australia supporters than I read from your posts. Although saying Australia is a big country able to take many more migrants would rate close to what you write, being put about by some vested interests as a faux argument. Or on par with that must rate the talent being imported .......the cries of protest are getting louder. It is you increasingly out on a limb, as people become angry with the declining lifestyles found in their cities.

Beoz

The western subs getting busier. With all that new infrastructure going in there, it's only going to enhance a place I certainly wouldn't live.

You keep banging on about the western suburbs ..... is that your desire ... to live there?

I would give it about 5 years if I were you but by then it should have some good points of interest.

the troubadour

Western suburbs are pigeon holed as a place of high density, ethnically concentrated burbs, increasingly becoming separated by areas of dominance of a particularly group, low earning slaves for a large part.
Interesting enough for those of the more white bread burbs to venture for excitement and cultural diversity in foods etc, but no doubt scurrying back to their less exciting burbs, berating the poverty and ever growing edginess to live in the ghetto.
I suppose Westies have always coped it so the future they have no right to expect better.
As for infrastructure the idea is to build it before the situation runs away or at the very least hand in hand. All too late. Cars will blight the landscape with growing ferocity and trips will ever become longer......
People may well prove superior though to the ever pretentious brigade in so termed 'better parts' of that city.


Anyway immigration is on the way down just wait and see. Dutton is not a multi culturist and policy appears to be increasingly determined by right wing antics. All could so easily have been prevented with some proper leadership ......

Beoz

It's kind of funny how far off the mark you are, but a lot of fun educating you at the same time.

I play cricket in an Eastern Suburbs team and only one of 3 who live in the eastern subs. Most in the team were born and bred in the eastern suburbs but gentrified to the west. They wanted a big house on 350+ sq metres. Not for me but their choice.

Places around Bankstown seem to be the pick. A very war torn Lebanese area increasingly being flooded with white families.

Don't you find the changing demographics of a big city evolving very interesting and great for diversity and vibrancy? I certainly do.

Time for you to stop living in the past.

The likes of Dutton and Abbott don't care who immigrates as long as you contribute and don't cause issues. As I say, the right type of Immigration.

BadgeIsBack

Define Vibrancy - you chaps.

Personally I like established culture - and you can find this in Syd and Melbourne. There are families in both which are from the same roots as those you find in Europe with the same interests.

If vibrancy means lots of 'poor' people, marginalised people, trans-gender confused, (it's ok - I am joking), 'crime', and drugs then it is not my bag.

I quite like S Europe culture in terms of coffee, cafes and promenading- maybe it's the wog in me..probably aligned with climate. The Spanish are renowned night owls.

Cheers

the troubadour

Yep certainly approve of the increased Brazilian intake noted from large census (2016) We certainly need more Samba dances and good time people to awake the somewhat 'stuffy' and 'reserved' Anglos from their internal slumber.


Anyone notice how 'serious' Aussies have become? At least in Perth, the few smiles about on the streets, appear to be from Asian faces. When did longer term usually 'white' become so work focused and devoid of fun? We are a very conservative bunch that don't tend to ask many questions, but to become an increasingly 'stressed nation', seems to have entered the front door without many realising it.


Now just how is the creation of a Big Australia in terms of population going to alleviate this? Is it going to create a better country? (minus the Brazilian dancers, good looking Colombian women with a certain sense of 'elan' not immediately apparent in many local women, Argentine Tango dancers are certainly graceful and all for increased quotas to assist national well being. Some quartiers devoted to 24 hour India/Korea/China/Vietnam/Philippine Towns would certainly add a bit of life. The Latin's certainly did help to show the Aussies how to live. Probably time for another jolt. Here in Perth, at any rate, some lessons if learnt from incomers appear to have been forgotten and need to be relearnt. I suspect this is likely to be more a Perth indictment than the bigger cities though.


My argument though is population over load in a time of uncertainty not to say poor preparation in the way of infrastructure, in a time of increasing unease at falling living standards, while at the same time, ever increasing numbers of visible immigrants make their presence felt in large numbers in city centres and increasingly dominate particular suburbs, will provoke a reaction from a still numerous per cent that will use the situation to provoke trouble for own ends. It would not be difficult to induce 'others' felt hard done by with high house prices, stagnant wages, toxic work places, increasing social divides between class and other divisions that have been allowed to grow by recent governments, while record immigration further fuels division through the eyes of many.....Vib is not a prime consideration to many......in such circumstances.

the troubadour

I would say rather contrary. The Western suburbs are to become the 'testing' ground and working class 'slave' locality rather removed from the leafier richer grounds of' better off' areas, blighted by poverty and likely increased crime. I'm sure it will posses more 'vibe' but will be stigmatised, but nothing new to that area. Parts will likely resemble localities in London and Paris that harbour the very poor, many being migrant, whom get by the best they can under the circumstances , but where life is a struggle.


Probably time for you to really imagine the future how the growth in already poor areas will further impact on life quality.


Dutton very much cares whom migrates. Thing being of course is that few Europeans are interested these days in migrating to Australia and especially to economically challenging areas.
His desire for South African farmers an example of his thinking, but hardly a raging success either. Even of those people only a limited number would likely be interested, probably none of those to Western Sydney.

BadgeIsBack

The Anglos may seem reserved but they are also from parts of the planet that traditionally know how to lead and administrate - but also have a good time - work hard play hard. There's a reason why the Anglos could establish colones away from the mother land :-)

Yes, nice to have some elan from the dancing girls, but they are from places where you need to wiggle your bum because that's not much going on in terms of stability elsewhere... it's not just the brown girls who can dance, of course. I like Tango myself as an art form.


hmmm...could have some fun here..