Grayling

Already got it

.....and it is pretty safe where it is

scratchey

of course he can still rely on your vote. the blind following the blind.

Grayling

suits me

NikiL

I do not understand why anyone who doesn't vote feels they have the right to criticise politicians in power. I agree the the selection we have available is pretty poor to say the very least but until we have the "none of the above" option on the ballot paper we have to choose the best of a bad bunch.

It is unfortunate that those who wish for political power are those inherently least suited for it. One view is that if you genuinely feel that those in power are that poor, then stand for office yourself. Bottom line, if you feel that strongly about those in office, then use the right that people died for to give you and vote them out. Don't just sit there and bitch about it.

scratchey

if having an opinion is bitching, then im bitching. i never claimed i could run the country, brown claims this(mind you i couldn't do a worse job than brown) now think this one through, the reason i dont vote is because there is so much that polititions can be criticised for. do people really think any polition cares about them as individuals.

NikiL

I have no argument with someone having an opinion, whether you want to call it bitching or not. My point is, if you feel the politicians in power are that poor, then exercise your right to vote. If you don't use that right, then in my opinion at least, you shouldn't really bitch about what they're doing. You have the right to try and change things, if you don;t use that right then why bitch if they don't change?

There is a lot that politicians can be criticised for, there should be. Why should that affect whether you vote or not? Someone who chooses that role in life is well aware of the risks involved. God knows there are plenty of benefits attached to it!

I would really like to know why that affects whether someone votes or not.

Devlin

100% disagree. I was recently in America and the standard of living for people is far, far higher in general than in Australia. This mostly down to a drastically lower cost of living and salaries that in general are still higher.

The standard of living in Australia is declining faster than Europe and the USA as the cost of living has shot up massively of late. I will agree that the west in general will see a decline in their standard of living - which is probably long overdue.

Wol

Agree. I've never seen so many people who are really hard up as I have in Australia. Get out of the coffee belts of the cities and look around: there's real struggling going on. Some of it is self-inflicted (gambling's a national problem) but a lot isn't.

scratchey

you said "the best of a bad bunch" to me this is like stubbing one toe or two. i would prefer neither. i know i have the right to try and change things by a vote, but in reality, it wont change a thing. i like to stay in the real world.

NikiL

Ah, I think we have to agree to disagree then. I would also prefer neither, but I personally feel that not exercising my right to choose removes my right to complain about what I have had no input in. I would still like none of the above to be brought in as an option, then the parties would have to select suitable candidates.

Budawang

I know your life's mission is to talk down Australia - fair enough, freedom of speach is important. However, the above statement is simply not bourne out by statistics, nor my own personal experience. I lived in North America for ten years and was there just two weeks ago. The minimum wage in the US is a meagre $7 per hour, compared to $13 per hour in Australia. Sure, the overall cost of living is maybe 15-20% lower. However, many things cost about the same or even more such as restaurants, car and medical insurance, airfares and public transport.
Wages here are still increasing more than the rate of inflation and employment continues to grow strongly.

Wol

I notice from your profile that Canada features, so I assume that is the "North America" you refer to. My experience of Canadians is that they lean more towards the Australian aspirations rather than American ones.

Going purely on personal experience of myself and my friends and aquaintances, and not on statistics, I would agree that the US standards are far higher in most things. Americans are very ready to throw money in large quantities at a problem - real or imagined - and think that will "solve" it, whereas Australians are reluctant to spend relatively tiny amounts of cash to keep things maintained and up-to-date. I think something in the middle would be better - but then I don't see Australians elevating their sights at all.

Just my opinion.

Devlin

How many of the people on this forum would be on minimum wage? Your comparison is irrelevant. I've spent a lot of time in America and on average it is at least 30-40% cheaper than the UK and Australia. Income tax is much lower in the USA too for anyone on a decent income. Comparing people on minimum wage is a whole different kettle of fish.

Budawang

Minimum wages are hardly irrelevant. High minimum wages ensure that there is greater income equality in Australia. The argument against high minimum wages is that it causes higher unemployment - hardly a problem in Australia which has a lower unemployment rate than the US. There is a substantial underclass of working poor in the US with all its related social problems. I'm certainly glad my 18 year old son who is working local supermarket is earning almost $14 per hour (plus superannuation) rather than $6 something.

I concede that professionals with college degrees have more purchasing power in the US, but it is achieved on the backs of the working poor.

Budawang

You are right, I lived in Canada. However, I have visited the US on many occasions, including 2 weeks ago. The Canadian economic model is much closer to the US one. The Canadians have no choice as 85% of their exports go there. Minimum wages are much closer to the US ($7-$8 per hour), fuel excise is low, 2 weeks annual vacation etc. Most Canadians can freely shop across the border in the US for their weekly groceries and to fill up with gas. Their economies are highly integrated. However, it is true Canadians pay slightly more tax and have a much more generous social security system.

I'm not sure what you mean about keeping things up-to-date. My recent experience of airports in the US is that they are anything but up-to-date. One area where the US does beat Australia hands down is the size of its military and its prison system (1 in 99 adults are in prison at any given time). The public money spent on these dwarfs the Australian equivalent on a per capita basis. However, neither of these add to the standard of living of citizens. Public spending in Australia has a better chance of improving the lives of its citizens.