So, we are thinking of moving......
Apr 24th 2007, 8:10 pm
#241
Account Closed
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 191
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Thanks, but I think I need to keep a clear mind to deal with this new age mental bubble bath that's washing over here!
Apr 24th 2007, 8:31 pm
#242
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Didn’t you say your work is voluntary ?
Last edited by Campbells; Apr 24th 2007 at 8:35 pm.
Apr 24th 2007, 8:47 pm
#244
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Northcliff. But you should have seen this in my previous post.
2.
NO. I don’t have any of that. I have a wall that is my height (average) I can look over it if I want to. The wall is there because the pool is in front of the house, not at the back.
In our street only one house has all those things you detailed.
YES I do. And I invite you to travel with me. I do it daily. Oh sorry, my mistake with one of the cars the doors are lock because they lock automatically when you start driving (Chrysler) the other car they don’t lock. And my windows are always opened, due to the fact that I am smoking (bad habit, sorry).
2.
NO. I don’t have any of that. I have a wall that is my height (average) I can look over it if I want to. The wall is there because the pool is in front of the house, not at the back.
In our street only one house has all those things you detailed.
YES I do. And I invite you to travel with me. I do it daily. Oh sorry, my mistake with one of the cars the doors are lock because they lock automatically when you start driving (Chrysler) the other car they don’t lock. And my windows are always opened, due to the fact that I am smoking (bad habit, sorry).
Post number 196 was where my question was asked, your explanation to where you live was after that – post No 213.
You are a smarty pants but you gotta stay with the programme.
I think you are still smoking K as I have zero intention of taking up your invite to South Africa to drive around Jo’burg CBD, it’s a hovel. You like me to post some pictures?
Your comments re Northcliff. It sounds like you assume that nobody here has lived in SA, I spent over 20 years there and we have several friends currently in Northcliff, I can get them to take pictures of their walls and electric fences and the neighbours too but I am sure you will argue that the camera does lie !
That is just as ridic as your *invite* for me to drive with you in Jo’burg – as if the Jo’burg you know is different.
Please ……………..
Apr 24th 2007, 9:34 pm
#247
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
I guess international corporates are prepared to pay to dollar (note the term, not Rands) for rentals or purchase.
You said it, painting a rosy picture of SA is obviously your business No 3 that you started without money.
So whilst people invest their lives in SA R1 million is only £70 k of course you have to paint a rosy picture of SA because at your age the thought of having to leave ( the chicken run) and start again in another country is terrifying.
You are so busy trying to convince yourself that your business strategy has paid off because you stay in Northcliff and have a swimming pool (in front of your house) and drive a Chrysler.
Deep down inside you know and it is easier for you to tell yourself that SA is all rosy and offers more for you than other countries. That is why you only buy magazines as you, like thousands of others in SA have distanced yourself from the truth because you don’t like to hear it and don’t want to hear it, otherwise you will become a statistic, either you will be a victim or you will join the chickens and run away.
Once you understand the real threat of the mindless violence in SA your swimming pool has no value like all the other material things that South Africans worship.
The difference for us is, both my wife and I ran our own businesses in SA and now do so here. The *real* news is that it is ten times easier doing business here and for every $ we make it has international value.
The biggest mistake we made was not getting our chickens out of South Africa sooner and doing business in an international arena with international value.
That is real ………………..
Apr 24th 2007, 10:33 pm
#248
Banned
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 400
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Campbells,
The difference with WW is that generally the country was all on the same side. PLUS after the war the country was re-built, with South Africa the country is ( supposedly) not at war and the place is being destroyed into a hovel. For example, Hillbrow & surrounding areas. So I really don’t understand your point here.
With regards to Hillbrow, I think it's called urban migration. In typical first world countries this happens when people from rural areas migrate to the cities. The situation is much the same in SA except that you have people from surrounding townships moving into these areas to be closer to work. Many of which, as I'm sure you know, earn peanuts. As for WW2, yes, people were on the same side and if all South Africans could be on the same side then yes, employment and the general standards of the country would improve. It's so unfortunate that many, if not most, of those who enjoyed the previous legacy did not have the decency to stay and try to make right or to make even just a small contribution for the injustices of the millions who have had to suffer.
SA is a beautiful place but we have a four year old boy and there is no way in hell we want to bring him up there, firstly in their violent culture, secondly where they are constantly lowering the education bar to suit ( this does not encourage children).
Education bar - this may be true. There are private schools with high standards.
So many people are starting to say on this forum that to go back to SA the best way is to start a business. NONSENSE, our business was based on educational products for the black Africans and we were starting to get FORCED into having a black partner of 51% WHICH IS CONTROLLING SHARES – hello. So what you mean to say is that it is best for some black person with zero skills to PRETEND to be your partner on paper as you no-doubt ( as in our case) not be able to find a potential partner to join your company as there is such a dire shortage of skills.
'Starting to get forced' ??? Not said with certainty. The decision to allocate shares or share ownership would reside with you if you were the owner. Staffing requirements, by legislation, on the otherhand require you to have black representation in your business. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with BEE it's only fair that black africans are allowed to catch up and it would also be fair for it to continue. Apartheid lasted about fifity years so there is lots to catch up on.
Starting a business in Suth Africa is the right thing to do if you have the skills and are in a position to do so. The business environment in South Africa, like any other country, is competitive and there are many people doing extremely well.
Of course like any business person would look at the big picture, there is also the case of getting your money out the country should you decide to leave SA – then what ? At R1 million equal to £70 k ( as of today) where is the long term business sense in that ?
The South African governments decision to allow the currency to float was a good one. It does have ebbs and flows and this is good. They could decide to set the exchange rates like they did during the previous regime but overall its not good economy. As for the exchange rate, your income is dependent on the type of business you choose to operate if you are operating outside SA. There is nothing to stop SA citizens from doing this or investing in oversees markets. Also, £70k won't buy you a house in the UK, R1 million on the other hand will buy you a very nice house in SA.
We knew ( personally) so many black people that sat on boards of several companies where there name was / is on the letterhead for compliance sake. Of course they will take a share in your business to allow you to use their name but that is as far as their contribution to the business goes. Oh, BTW try advertising for a black partner to BUY IN to your business, this has been designed for PREVIOUSLY DISADVANTAGED so where do you think they are going to get the money to buy in ?
Anyone suggesting to people to move to a strange country in general and open up a business is a fool. The best route is always to work in that country and preferably in the business you intend to start so you can gain local knowledge. Then you move into starting your own business. South Africa is fraught with corruption and of course if deals go wrong and e.g. people don’t want to pay there is always the threat of violence.
I disagree. There are many franchise opportunities in South Africa that offer training and support. Obviously it would be more difficult if you are trying to start off fresh, with a non standard venture, that applies but it would apply to any country in the world.
We have a friend that dealt at government level and told us that the government tender board is run by a mafia over there , so quite obviously it is the ruling government are setting the precedence what do you expect business to be further down the chain.
This is quite simply not true and a load of crap so I'll swiftly move on.
We used to do business with several of the biggest banks in SA and I was horrified how many of their staff expected bribes for us to get business from them. Doing business in Africa is a whole new set of rules and many times it is the one holding the gun that sets the rules.
Ever heard of the Ombudsman???
I would say that someone running a legitimate business in the UK and moving to SA would find it completely different. Of course, starting with just trying to get a telephone from the only service provider there, Telkom.
In my experience I have not had any problems dealing with Telkom. There are other options like Skype.
Leaving SA two years ago for us, both my wife and I have start our own businesses and have had to re-learn to trust again and understand that there are places in the world where you can do business in an honest environment. This is the future for our son; this will be his foundation for his future.
BTW SA citizen – proud.
Welcome to BE and congrats on your first post, hope you are going to keep posting.
Just as a matter of interest, for someone with such a strong handle ( SA Proud) why did you leave SA ?
My girlfriend could not work in SA because she did not hold an SA passport. We have since married and plan to head back soon. I would encourage anyone and everyone to move to move to SA. Especially Cape Town. VERY NICE PLACE!!!
Thank-you for your comments.
[/I]
The difference with WW is that generally the country was all on the same side. PLUS after the war the country was re-built, with South Africa the country is ( supposedly) not at war and the place is being destroyed into a hovel. For example, Hillbrow & surrounding areas. So I really don’t understand your point here.
With regards to Hillbrow, I think it's called urban migration. In typical first world countries this happens when people from rural areas migrate to the cities. The situation is much the same in SA except that you have people from surrounding townships moving into these areas to be closer to work. Many of which, as I'm sure you know, earn peanuts. As for WW2, yes, people were on the same side and if all South Africans could be on the same side then yes, employment and the general standards of the country would improve. It's so unfortunate that many, if not most, of those who enjoyed the previous legacy did not have the decency to stay and try to make right or to make even just a small contribution for the injustices of the millions who have had to suffer.
SA is a beautiful place but we have a four year old boy and there is no way in hell we want to bring him up there, firstly in their violent culture, secondly where they are constantly lowering the education bar to suit ( this does not encourage children).
Education bar - this may be true. There are private schools with high standards.
So many people are starting to say on this forum that to go back to SA the best way is to start a business. NONSENSE, our business was based on educational products for the black Africans and we were starting to get FORCED into having a black partner of 51% WHICH IS CONTROLLING SHARES – hello. So what you mean to say is that it is best for some black person with zero skills to PRETEND to be your partner on paper as you no-doubt ( as in our case) not be able to find a potential partner to join your company as there is such a dire shortage of skills.
'Starting to get forced' ??? Not said with certainty. The decision to allocate shares or share ownership would reside with you if you were the owner. Staffing requirements, by legislation, on the otherhand require you to have black representation in your business. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with BEE it's only fair that black africans are allowed to catch up and it would also be fair for it to continue. Apartheid lasted about fifity years so there is lots to catch up on.
Starting a business in Suth Africa is the right thing to do if you have the skills and are in a position to do so. The business environment in South Africa, like any other country, is competitive and there are many people doing extremely well.
Of course like any business person would look at the big picture, there is also the case of getting your money out the country should you decide to leave SA – then what ? At R1 million equal to £70 k ( as of today) where is the long term business sense in that ?
The South African governments decision to allow the currency to float was a good one. It does have ebbs and flows and this is good. They could decide to set the exchange rates like they did during the previous regime but overall its not good economy. As for the exchange rate, your income is dependent on the type of business you choose to operate if you are operating outside SA. There is nothing to stop SA citizens from doing this or investing in oversees markets. Also, £70k won't buy you a house in the UK, R1 million on the other hand will buy you a very nice house in SA.
We knew ( personally) so many black people that sat on boards of several companies where there name was / is on the letterhead for compliance sake. Of course they will take a share in your business to allow you to use their name but that is as far as their contribution to the business goes. Oh, BTW try advertising for a black partner to BUY IN to your business, this has been designed for PREVIOUSLY DISADVANTAGED so where do you think they are going to get the money to buy in ?
Anyone suggesting to people to move to a strange country in general and open up a business is a fool. The best route is always to work in that country and preferably in the business you intend to start so you can gain local knowledge. Then you move into starting your own business. South Africa is fraught with corruption and of course if deals go wrong and e.g. people don’t want to pay there is always the threat of violence.
I disagree. There are many franchise opportunities in South Africa that offer training and support. Obviously it would be more difficult if you are trying to start off fresh, with a non standard venture, that applies but it would apply to any country in the world.
We have a friend that dealt at government level and told us that the government tender board is run by a mafia over there , so quite obviously it is the ruling government are setting the precedence what do you expect business to be further down the chain.
This is quite simply not true and a load of crap so I'll swiftly move on.
We used to do business with several of the biggest banks in SA and I was horrified how many of their staff expected bribes for us to get business from them. Doing business in Africa is a whole new set of rules and many times it is the one holding the gun that sets the rules.
Ever heard of the Ombudsman???
I would say that someone running a legitimate business in the UK and moving to SA would find it completely different. Of course, starting with just trying to get a telephone from the only service provider there, Telkom.
In my experience I have not had any problems dealing with Telkom. There are other options like Skype.
Leaving SA two years ago for us, both my wife and I have start our own businesses and have had to re-learn to trust again and understand that there are places in the world where you can do business in an honest environment. This is the future for our son; this will be his foundation for his future.
BTW SA citizen – proud.
Welcome to BE and congrats on your first post, hope you are going to keep posting.
Just as a matter of interest, for someone with such a strong handle ( SA Proud) why did you leave SA ?
My girlfriend could not work in SA because she did not hold an SA passport. We have since married and plan to head back soon. I would encourage anyone and everyone to move to move to SA. Especially Cape Town. VERY NICE PLACE!!!
Thank-you for your comments.
[/I]
Apr 24th 2007, 10:56 pm
#249
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
well, Karen, I mentioned I'd been chatting to your Husband Sean about your business, the property and Estate Agency one, and how my wife and I had decided not to invest in the low priced units in the Berea as one could'nt be guaranteed continuance if something happened to your estate agent.
Please RUN, don't just walk away from anybody trying to sell you property in Berea or Hillbrow. You have no idea what a hell hole that part of Joburg has become!
Apr 24th 2007, 11:23 pm
#250
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
That is good for you. All decisions made by you are good for you.
My facility manager can tell you far worse stories than the once you took out of the media. Far worse. He can also tell you stories that are far better.
Where there is smoke.......
Like I said each focuses on the negative or the positive. That is a choice.
Still people invest, and he is still around for longer than he can't count in years.
Problems are there, that is why investors invest, because they don't have to go there. What?
This sounds like a snake oil scheme. Anyone that takes a little time to do research will soon discover how bad an investment it is to buy anything in downtown Joburg. Any investor worth their salt would do a little research anyway before putting down their hard earned cash in any investment
If one agent is gone there is another and then there is always the good old agencies like Trafalgar which have never left CBD and they are just getting bigger and bigger. When one agent is gone, as in taken out?
What you decide is good for you. No argument there.
My facility manager can tell you far worse stories than the once you took out of the media. Far worse. He can also tell you stories that are far better.
Where there is smoke.......
Like I said each focuses on the negative or the positive. That is a choice.
Still people invest, and he is still around for longer than he can't count in years.
Problems are there, that is why investors invest, because they don't have to go there. What?
This sounds like a snake oil scheme. Anyone that takes a little time to do research will soon discover how bad an investment it is to buy anything in downtown Joburg. Any investor worth their salt would do a little research anyway before putting down their hard earned cash in any investment If one agent is gone there is another and then there is always the good old agencies like Trafalgar which have never left CBD and they are just getting bigger and bigger. When one agent is gone, as in taken out?
What you decide is good for you. No argument there.
Apr 25th 2007, 6:24 am
#252
Banned
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: North of Auckland
Posts: 1,996
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Why should blacks get more rights than whites.
The difference with WW is that generally the country was all on the same side. PLUS after the war the country was re-built, with South Africa the country is ( supposedly) not at war and the place is being destroyed into a hovel. For example, Hillbrow & surrounding areas. So I really don’t understand your point here.
With regards to Hillbrow, I think it's called urban migration. In typical first world countries this happens when people from rural areas migrate to the cities.
The difference with WW is that generally the country was all on the same side. PLUS after the war the country was re-built, with South Africa the country is ( supposedly) not at war and the place is being destroyed into a hovel. For example, Hillbrow & surrounding areas. So I really don’t understand your point here.
With regards to Hillbrow, I think it's called urban migration. In typical first world countries this happens when people from rural areas migrate to the cities.
Why is that and who’s fault is it ? With all the BEE & AA there is no excuse. For example Tish …
As for WW2, yes, people were on the same side and if all South Africans could be on the same side then yes, employment and the general standards of the country would improve. It's so unfortunate that many, if not most, of those who enjoyed the previous legacy did not have the decency to stay and try to make right or to make even just a small contribution for the injustices of the millions who have had to suffer.
SA is a beautiful place but we have a four year old boy and there is no way in hell we want to bring him up there, firstly in their violent culture, secondly where they are constantly lowering the education bar to suit ( this does not encourage children).
Education bar - this may be true. There are private schools with high standards.
Education bar - this may be true. There are private schools with high standards.
So many people are starting to say on this forum that to go back to SA the best way is to start a business. NONSENSE, our business was based on educational products for the black Africans and we were starting to get FORCED into having a black partner of 51% WHICH IS CONTROLLING SHARES – hello. So what you mean to say is that it is best for some black person with zero skills to PRETEND to be your partner on paper as you no-doubt ( as in our case) not be able to find a potential partner to join your company as there is such a dire shortage of skills.
'Starting to get forced' ??? Not said with certainty. The decision to allocate shares or share ownership would reside with you if you were the owner. Staffing requirements, by legislation, on the otherhand require you to have black representation in your business. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with BEE it's only fair that black africans are allowed to catch up and it would also be fair for it to continue. Apartheid lasted about fifity years so there is lots to catch up on.
'Starting to get forced' ??? Not said with certainty. The decision to allocate shares or share ownership would reside with you if you were the owner. Staffing requirements, by legislation, on the otherhand require you to have black representation in your business. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with BEE it's only fair that black africans are allowed to catch up and it would also be fair for it to continue. Apartheid lasted about fifity years so there is lots to catch up on.
Too many times South Africans tell me the y will not leave because they are making money. The life of our son is priceless and we decided to re-valuate our lives in SA and got out as the value is in us LIVING our lives and many times that is the simple things like going to a kiddies play park and it is CLEAN, SAFE & VERY UP-TO-DATE. The play parks we experienced in SA were hovels not fit for use.
The two main areas that display real riches in life and a balanced perspective are the aged & the youth. Mate, I certainly do not wish to grow old in South Africa. You become a soft target and all the money in the world isn’t going to change that.
Of course like any business person would look at the big picture, there is also the case of getting your money out the country should you decide to leave SA – then what ? At R1 million equal to £70 k ( as of today) where is the long term business sense in that ?
The South African governments decision to allow the currency to float was a good one. It does have ebbs and flows and this is good. They could decide to set the exchange rates like they did during the previous regime but overall its not good economy. As for the exchange rate, your income is dependent on the type of business you choose to operate if you are operating outside SA. There is nothing to stop SA citizens from doing this or investing in oversees markets. Also, £70k won't buy you a house in the UK, R1 million on the other hand will buy you a very nice house in SA.
The South African governments decision to allow the currency to float was a good one. It does have ebbs and flows and this is good. They could decide to set the exchange rates like they did during the previous regime but overall its not good economy. As for the exchange rate, your income is dependent on the type of business you choose to operate if you are operating outside SA. There is nothing to stop SA citizens from doing this or investing in oversees markets. Also, £70k won't buy you a house in the UK, R1 million on the other hand will buy you a very nice house in SA.
We knew ( personally) so many black people that sat on boards of several companies where there name was / is on the letterhead for compliance sake. Of course they will take a share in your business to allow you to use their name but that is as far as their contribution to the business goes. Oh, BTW try advertising for a black partner to BUY IN to your business, this has been designed for PREVIOUSLY DISADVANTAGED so where do you think they are going to get the money to buy in ?
Anyone suggesting to people to move to a strange country in general and open up a business is a fool. The best route is always to work in that country and preferably in the business you intend to start so you can gain local knowledge. Then you move into starting your own business. South Africa is fraught with corruption and of course if deals go wrong and e.g. people don’t want to pay there is always the threat of violence.
I disagree. There are many franchise opportunities in South Africa that offer training and support. Obviously it would be more difficult if you are trying to start off fresh, with a non standard venture, that applies but it would apply to any country in the world.
Anyone suggesting to people to move to a strange country in general and open up a business is a fool. The best route is always to work in that country and preferably in the business you intend to start so you can gain local knowledge. Then you move into starting your own business. South Africa is fraught with corruption and of course if deals go wrong and e.g. people don’t want to pay there is always the threat of violence.
I disagree. There are many franchise opportunities in South Africa that offer training and support. Obviously it would be more difficult if you are trying to start off fresh, with a non standard venture, that applies but it would apply to any country in the world.
We have a friend that dealt at government level and told us that the government tender board is run by a mafia over there , so quite obviously it is the ruling government are setting the precedence what do you expect business to be further down the chain.
This is quite simply not true and a load of crap so I'll swiftly move on.
This is quite simply not true and a load of crap so I'll swiftly move on.
We used to do business with several of the biggest banks in SA and I was horrified how many of their staff expected bribes for us to get business from them. Doing business in Africa is a whole new set of rules and many times it is the one holding the gun that sets the rules.
Ever heard of the Ombudsman???
Ever heard of the Ombudsman???
I would say that someone running a legitimate business in the UK and moving to SA would find it completely different. Of course, starting with just trying to get a telephone from the only service provider there, Telkom.
In my experience I have not had any problems dealing with Telkom. There are other options like Skype.
In my experience I have not had any problems dealing with Telkom. There are other options like Skype.
Leaving SA two years ago for us, both my wife and I have start our own businesses and have had to re-learn to trust again and understand that there are places in the world where you can do business in an honest environment. This is the future for our son; this will be his foundation for his future.
BTW SA citizen – proud.
Welcome to BE and congrats on your first post, hope you are going to keep posting.
Just as a matter of interest, for someone with such a strong handle ( SA Proud) why did you leave SA ?
My girlfriend could not work in SA because she did not hold an SA passport. We have since married and plan to head back soon. I would encourage anyone and everyone to move to move to SA. Especially Cape Town. VERY NICE PLACE!!!
BTW SA citizen – proud.
Welcome to BE and congrats on your first post, hope you are going to keep posting.
Just as a matter of interest, for someone with such a strong handle ( SA Proud) why did you leave SA ?
My girlfriend could not work in SA because she did not hold an SA passport. We have since married and plan to head back soon. I would encourage anyone and everyone to move to move to SA. Especially Cape Town. VERY NICE PLACE!!!
Apr 25th 2007, 12:16 pm
#253
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
I believe it. I was living there when the massacres were going on.
I've lived it, twice. The optimism. The euphoria. The expectancy of great things to come. Only to be let down by the governing bodies a few years down the line. And like I've said before, South Africa will be a much bigger problem than Zimbabwe due to the fact that there is so much racial/tribal conflict in S.A., none of which Zims has ever had to any large extent (barring uncle bob and matabeleland)..
I've lived it, twice. The optimism. The euphoria. The expectancy of great things to come. Only to be let down by the governing bodies a few years down the line. And like I've said before, South Africa will be a much bigger problem than Zimbabwe due to the fact that there is so much racial/tribal conflict in S.A., none of which Zims has ever had to any large extent (barring uncle bob and matabeleland)..
This puts me in mind of the SA government's suspension of crime figures.
I'm not sure if this way of managing problems is better called "postmodern" or "African." Don't like the crime stats? Then just stop releasing them and the problem goes away.
Pablo
Apr 25th 2007, 12:54 pm
#254
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
They were deprived of a decent education, A grand design by the nationalist party government or whoever the hell came up with the apartheid system. The real intention of the system was to keep black people right there (earning peanuts). It took fifty years to create this and a mere 10yrs in my view is hardly enough to correct it.
You are probably going to respong by saying its the ANC Government's fault. Maybe you are right, but the way i see it businesses have to contribute in one way or another. From my experience, even after 94 some companies were still NOT prepared to pay black graduates what their white counterparts were getting.
I suppose thats your BEE myth proven, a black person with little or no education should just be offered a job as a company director...Right?? Now I understand why you have such a big problem with BEE.
Not everyone had the same opportunities as I had. I think it is for that reason that I went an extra mile in explaining the issue about extra tuition often offered only in Maths and science. Automatically this excludes a huge amount of individuals..(it would be the case anywhere in the world). I had a lot of support around me. There are millions who were less opportuned than me.
South Africa's problems are not one size fits all.
You are probably going to respong by saying its the ANC Government's fault. Maybe you are right, but the way i see it businesses have to contribute in one way or another. From my experience, even after 94 some companies were still NOT prepared to pay black graduates what their white counterparts were getting.
and With all the BEE & AA there is no excuse.
For example Tish …
South Africa's problems are not one size fits all.
Apr 25th 2007, 1:01 pm
#255
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
True, so why must we have a 'one size fits all' solution? It isn't going to work, and unless the SA government faces up to this fact very soon it will be too late to do anything about it.
You talk sensibly. But you know as well as I do that many, many others in SA are not so measured and moderate in their language or in their intentions for the future. Quite apart from other considerations, Mugabe is held up as a hero. There is much more one could say, but surely that one fact says it all.
Pablo
You talk sensibly. But you know as well as I do that many, many others in SA are not so measured and moderate in their language or in their intentions for the future. Quite apart from other considerations, Mugabe is held up as a hero. There is much more one could say, but surely that one fact says it all.
Pablo