A conspiracy theory, very good. (have you actually condemned the incident at UOFS yet?)

What was factually incorrect, didn't the incident occur?

Maybe Jug's saw them as two seperate incidents, hence the double post.

the incident was condemned by everyone on the thread, myself included- whats wrong with you

How about we discuss the thread .Shifty the only reason I posted two threads is that didn’t want the issues to be intertwined .Regretfully that is exactly what’s happening .Why the red herrings about BEE and murders and even Mugabe .
I just want to know why integration is such a bad thing ? While some condemn the acts of these young men some choose to demonize prominent citizens that do the condemning , why is that ? should we not speak up in all instances ? Is incidents like this not the precursor to more heinous deeds ?

The res is university property is it not why should any student black or white have the option of excluding anyone based solely on race ?

If one of those cleaning ladies were a relative would the prank seem as innocent ?

(SNIP)

[b]No red herrings from me- what have I said about BEE? The issues discussed have direct relevance to the issue of integration.[/B]

this ground has already been covered- (read the posts). The opposite view is that its hard to consider integrating with animals who kill, rape steal and plunder. Have you any understanding of the extent and cruelty of these crimes? NO international coverage, NO meaningful police protection or adequate response from your government.
YOU SHOW NO REMORSE OR SYMPATHY- I wonder why?

I have never liked or condoned what took place- read my post. Yes, if they were one of my relatives, I would be very upset. As someone else has commented on- did any black people get killed? NO. In the context of the very real death and destruction going on and targeted against white people, it pales by comparison.

You are generating this nasty habit of isolating portions of my posts- exactly what I would consider to be a 'red herring'. If you would like to be spiteful, thats fine. This forum is a discussion and we prefer to deal in facts.

(SNIP)
I respond to the relevant sections.

(SNIP) How do you make the leap from black university students who want to attend a res of their choice to "animals who want to rape steal and plunder " ?
Youre right it is my government, since I'm a S.A citizen .They have failed me by their inability in dealing decisively with all crime .
Does that however mean we should once again revert to the apartheid style divisions...?



Death, destruction, targeted white people.. Whoa !
My point is that the urinating story is just a symptom of a broader inability of some white and black folks to accept that we need to act together and dicisively to root out racism .

I say black and white because just recently the Forum for black journalist held a meeting to witch they only invited black journos and no white journos were allowed.
That also aggravates an already devided society and should not be allowed !

[QUOTE=Juggernaut;6078256](SNIP)
I respond to the relevant sections.



(SNIP) How do you make the leap from black university students who want to attend a res of their choice to "animals who want to rape steal and plunder " ?
Youre right it is my government, since I'm a S.A citizen .They have failed me by their inability in dealing decisively with all crime .
Does that however mean we should once again revert to the apartheid style divisions...?





Death, destruction, targeted white people.. Whoa !
My point is that the urinating story is just a symptom of a broader inability of some white and black folks to accept that we need to act together and dicisively to root out racism .

I say black and white because just recently the Forum for black journalist held a meeting to witch they only invited black journos and no white journos were allowed.
That also aggravates an already devided society and should not be allowed ![/QUOTE]

Jugs

I salute you on that 1

Too much racialism mate & I for 1 hate all that stuff, it got to me

Jugs- we agree on alot of stuff, thanks for that.

Including 'affirmative action'? Then you get my vote Juggernaut.

Jugs for president! Say No to Racism.

Sorry Pablo ...I still believe that If applied the way its was intended that BEE is a very necessary evil .While its been abused widely by both sides ,It has had a lot of successes.

Ah, now why am I not surprised that the only 'racism' you want rooted out is the kind that you get to define as unwanted, whereas you get to keep the bits you like.

The system corrupts even those it is supposed to be helping. Your own obsession with race is a case in point.

Juggernaut, I agree with you that BEE is a necessary evil.
And in it's initial stages was suggested by Business to Counter the very real threat of mass re-distribution of wealth which the more Communistic and Socialist of the struggle groups still want and ALL Struggle groups had been promising their members for years to get support which was always Dangerous to give.
Business rightfully assumed that greed would win.
However, business also assumed that there would be a downward osmosis of wealth, creating more spend, more manufacturing, more Infrastructure by Governmnent, all of which would create employment.
Yes, There is the new Black middle class, spending like there is no tomorrow
on their future earnings,mostly on toys, imported toys. but the greater mass of unemployment is still basically unchanged.

And we have a situation where the key aspects of life are defined by race. Yet again.

The black who is promoted never knows whether he owes is promotion merely to the colour of his skin. The white who has a new black manager, when he finds that manager is incompetent, is unable to express his normal human dissatisfaction, or he will be labelled a racist.

The black who is not promoted cries foul - "racism"! So it becomes more convenient to promote an incompetent, rather than have to face a racism enquiry. Everyone suspects everyone else. If a white colleague dislikes a black colleague, the dislike is immediately interpreted in terms or race, whereas it may just be that two human beings dislike one another, or are suspicious of one another, for reasons that have nothing to do with colour.

But the black colleague thinks the white colleague is "looking down" on him - an entirely subjective judgement - and in the corrupt atmosphere that has been created this is rapidly interpreted as racism.

So you end up having to pretend you like people you don't like, just in case you get called a racist, and all normal human relationships become distorted.

As for 'necessary evils' - in my experience evil seldom leads to good. It merely leads to more evil.

Gee,

I forgot about how complicated it all was / is

I had a black colleague and actually also became my friend . He got away with things because he is black, late for meetings, no show` for meetings etc etc.

The best was he bought a very expensive wrist watch on an overseas business trip on the company Amex card. The company actually tried to cover it up and my friend even said if he was white he would have got fired.

My friend was a great person but very incompetent at his job, he regularly embarrassed himself at meetings and embarrassed the company in front of clients. It become a bit of a joke.

From a business point of view he cost the company thousands.

It is really simple; on the larger scale of things you simply can not run any business with the outlook that you are forced to carry dead-wood.

The worst thing is what it does to human relationships. It distorts everything, and makes any sort of true harmony impossible. So you are left with legalistic, forced 'integration' - which everyone sees through, and everyone secretly despises - but cannot say so openly. So it becomes a festering poison.

Work experiences I came across directly. The black financial director was quietly allowed to resign with a good reference with no questions asked and no prosecution when he was caught out in massive fraud. The 'Social Responsibility Manager' was caught out feathering his own nest, and again was quietly let go with no embarrassing revelations. Someone in Customer Support was useless, and when she wasn't promoted (and why should she have been?) she cried racism, and all hell broke loose, with top execs being flown in from the States and a huge enquiry into 'racism'. A senior sales manager was regularly asleep at his desk. No one breathed a word of criticism. It turned out in the end he had another job. Another exec was caught carrying computer equipment out of the office one weekend. He was flogging them off. Again, no outcry, just quietly let go. Everyone knew. No one dared speak out. The competent ones just emigrated. They are all elsewhere now.