Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Hi

I AM COMPLETELY MENTAL WITH A DEATH WISH AREN'T I?!

I am white, British, with a 4 year old & a 2 year old considering moving to Cape Town because I have met a man who is everything I could dream of for my boys and I. HOWEVER my S.A. man is very much needed by his family back home (we're currently in the UK) and although we are besotted with one another it is looking like unless I go to Cape Town with my 2 boys then we are going to loose one another forever. If this was (pretty much) anywhere else in the world this would be a no brainer-BUT-when I read some of the horror stories it makes me feel that I am crazy considering this for me & my little ones!
I have read the stats, I have read the horror stories. I have visited Capetown and met people that haven't been affected by crime but it seems there a lot more that have. I am afraid to go, then again, I'm afraid that if I stay and loose this wonderful person that I will regret it forever! So-here I am, sharing, researching, hoping, wondering etc etc! Please share your thoughts! (Yikes-just read Dee's thread from last December to April 2008!):wub::confused:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Probably lots,egbs, the Cape is an anomaly,it has the highest murder rate because of Drink,Drugs and Boredom, but somehow seems to have less of what drives people out of Johannesburg.ie violent crime, I'm sure its there, ut either its not reported or it is lower.

The only thing I can put it down to,is that A) The cape is farther away and B) it has a lower level of Urbanisation than Johannesburg/Pretoria.

If you were asking about moving to Joburg,my advice would be dont.
your kids are still young enough, go and try it with the love of your life, it either works or it does'nt.
If he loves you enough and it gets bad, you can get out of it. you have a brit Passport.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Hey DaxK
thanks so much for your reply ;-)
It's Cape Town we're thinking of moving to. We are smitten and consider ourselves very lucky (both having got it wrong 1st time around), trouble is moving there (to the excitement of his awaiting child) and then leaving that child is not an option. Going & leaving again is a no-no. My fears (having read many posts here) are that we "give it a go" & don't live to tell the tale, due to being raped or murdered in the process??!! I guess my question is to people already living there-how realistic is it to expect to be hijacked/raped/murdered/burgled whilst sleeping etc?!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

. Going & leaving again is a no-no.
Sorry,You are highly likely to leave again.
Unless B/F is/was disadvantaged.And if thats the case its a whole new ballgame.

I guess my question is to people already living there-how realistic is it to expect to be hijacked/raped/murdered/burgled whilst sleeping etc?!
Enough for 20% of all races and about 60% of the white population to try and get out.(the other 40% know they cannot or choose to believe that they dont want to)
It will take you awhile to develop whats known as the 360.
Even in CT.
Wake up,switch off the alarm, unlock the "safety" gate between you and the rest of the House, Wait to make sure you have seen the outside Dogs move around before you open the back Door Security Gate to let the "yapper" dog out, usually a Yorkie,Jack russel etc
get the kids fed, they are young enough and i'm sure you wont need to work, get them in the car, lock the doors ,close the windows, open the electric sliding gate etc.... come back, check the rear view mirror, make sure its safe...drive in, unlock the car, unlock the security doors, lock them again..
SA is beautiful, its also constant vigilance, about the kids, your surroundings, where you are where you are going and thats EVERYWHERE.
You're happy to live with that, fine.
a lot of people are'nt.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

The good old days of burglar bars, alarms, rabid guard dogs, armed response etc, etc. Must confess I still have an alarm in Melbourne (creature of habit), but don't switch it on at night. I also was never hijacked, raped, murdered or burgled whilst asleep, or awake for that matter, and I lived for 30 years in and around Jo'burg. :thumbup:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I wish everyone could say the same, Stanley.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I think you need to live there for a while in order to understand why so many people are prepared to turn their lives upside down and leave.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I really NEED to HEAR this stuff loud & clear. I know no-one ca m ake up my mind for me. My choice is loose a dear man who is amazing with my children (& quite likely spend years or forever alone) OR take my chances (&those of my children!) and go DESPITE the warnings! Now-should anything happen to any of that is one BIG mistake/bitter pill to swallow/hard lesson to learn.

Looking at what you say about disadvantaged-no-he is a white 40 year old male. He has connections in engineering firms from university days, he was offered work when he was there in Spring 2008, he didn't take up the post at that time. I don't know if the job offer is still available, I don't know if this company would be able to keep him on long term.

I feel less safe home alone all day with the kids (as I read here somewhere that the burglars prefer to have you at home), then again-from the things I have also read here about schools (suffering education standards/security guards at school???!!! Aids etc;-( I think I'd worry about my kids being out of my site at school too!!!

THEN-the "crazy" side of me says-"Hey-this may never happen to you. People live there now and have not been affected, if you don't go you may regret it for the rest of your life!" If only there was a magic "do this & you wont/are less likely to be a victim"!!!!!

THANK YOU ALL so much for your kindly taking time out to reply :unsure:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Stanley-may I ask you why you left. Also to everyone else, are you still in S.A?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Personally, I don't think one should live an insurance-policy life. But one should also be prepared to take the consequences without bleating. No life is risk free. Only death is risk free.

And, as Keats said (I think it was Keats), maintain a 'negative capability'.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

It was Keats! AND-I like that philosophy and were it not for having 2 wee bubbas in tow who's lives I am responsible for I probably would have a more "devil may care" attitude. Unfortunately the consequences of that "what will be will be" attitude may have grave consequences hey?! BUT MAN is it tempting to "just go" as a UK South African friend of mine has recently advised-telling (she & her man are from Jo'Burg & moving to Cape Town next year)
Thanks - your response made me smile at least!
I think I need to keep praying for divine intervention/a definitive word!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Yes, well there you are, and thanks for confirming it was Keats. I didn't have time to check.

I don't think it's so much 'devil may care' as a careful appraisal of what matters to one in life. Those old (hated?) colonials went out with far less of a safety net, and there was no going back, and they had to make the best of it.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Is there no possibility of your beloved bringing his family to the UK to live?
The weather is lousy, apart from the S.E., but it is generally a lot safer.

If he really cares for you as much as he seems to, then he should consider it.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Yes-wouldn't that be great! Trouble is his ex wife left the UK with their child 7 years ago and hasn't any intention of returning with him-it would definitly be a great solution if she would consider it but as they're now divorced neither child or mother have a UK passport.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Hmmm-yes-well when you put it like that it definitly puts the dangers" into perspective. What is considered a possible danger to me may not have put the old colonials off-then again-what was their alternative?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

They had none. That's why they stuck it out. For an alternative view, look at the bleaters elsewhere on this list who went to Australia and don't like it - for various wet, blah reasons. No backbone, as my old dad used to say.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

H Pablo

thanks for the fast response.Are you still in South Africa then?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Nope.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Oh-sorry? When you said other bleaters" had left/had no backbone I got the impression some people have left but you've stayed?:confused:What you mean then is you don't bleat??
Oh dear-is there anyone with anything positive to say? I guess not-Sounds like most South African's have got out?Are there safer areas to live (as in neighbourhoods not just in securing your individual home)or is it all pretty much a gamble? Are the children going to be able to play in the garden unsupervised?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Well of course most South Africans still live in South Africa. And it goes without saying that some areas are safer than others -- but I guess you've sussed that out for yourself during your visit(s) to Cape Town.

Who's being negative? I'm not. The sad bunch who go to Oz and then bleat are the ones whose understanding of the world is determined by gormless programmes like "Place in the Sun" and romantic novels and other pap.

As for crime in South Africa, that has been rehearsed endlessly on this list and elsewhere. It happens, and you can't insulate yourself from it. You just need to read a few news items to understand that. Have you been following the main SA newsfeeds for a while? A useful exercise.

Like I said earlier, you need to live there for a while to understand why people want to get out.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Have you been following the main SA newsfeeds for a while? A useful exercise.

Forgive me-I am surrounded by "little uns" all day & don't keep up too well with the news here let alone elsewhere? WAre you referring to a specific source? I'm not sure I want to live there for a while given the stories I've read! That's the trouble-looking for a happy ending/positive story I suppose! Sounds like I'm being unrealistic/optimistic! Thank you all for giving me your time & kind replies!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

No really. The newsfeeds are a useful way to get a sort of across-the-board view of what it's like living in SA -- good and bad. And the newsfeeds are convenient too -- just a daily email and you can click on the links that interest you and read more, rather like the ones you can get in the UK for various daily papers, the BBC, etc. So not time consuming unless you want them to be. You just subscribe (for free) and they plop into your inbox and you can read when you feel like it.

I often recommend the Independent on line (iol.co.za) because this picks up all the stuff covered in the various local SA papers. You can also perhaps look at the Cape Times.

There's also the Mail & Guardian site, which also has a newsfeed which you can get as a free daily email. The Mail & Guardian was a big thorn in the side of the old minority government, and is a thorn in the side of the new one too.

I don't know what you mean by wanting "a happy ending/positive story". Is that what you were looking for? I thought you wanted to discuss going to live in South Africa.

It's not a question of "optimistic" or anything else. It's a question of informing yourself and then making an informed decision. What that decision is surely depends on what your priorities are.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Thanks for the recommendations of newspaper links-great idea, yes I'll subscribe to those.
Priorities: keeping me, my boys, my partner & his son out of harms way of course-same as the next South African hey?! If my decision is based upon keeping us all safe then sounds like I shouldn't be entertaining South Africa hey?! So-broken heart it is by the sounds of it.............:-(

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

A number of reasons, and crime was probably the main one, whilst nothing happened to me or my immediate family, I new people who had been affected to varying degrees. I also have 2 children, and their future there was somewhat murky. An opportunity came up and I took it. :cool:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Stanley
AsI am considering a future for my boys in South Africa and as my partner has a son at school would you explicitly state in practical terms what you mean by "murky"-no job etc?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

- I wouldn't go so far as to say no jobs, (unemployment is 23% for the country and 5% for whites (from stats SA, I know they are wrong, but lets say the proportions are right, and double them if you like), I'm white and so are my boys), however AA does discriminate against whites, so why should I put my boys in a position where they "may" be discriminated against. :)

- whilst I say I was never a victim of crime, how would I have felt if they were future victims. I know crime happens everywhere, but it doesn't seem such an immediate possibility over here, and it appears to be less violent when it occurs (excluding bikie shooting in Geelong yesterday (victim deceased), and random stabbing 500 metres from my house on Friday morning (victim survived) as they are exceptional rather than the rule). hmmmm may have shot meself in the foot on this one ;)

- I didn't want to bring them up in a country where everything seems to follow on racial lines. I don't want to bring my boys up as "white" South Africans, I wanted them to be South Africans and this seemed to be an impossibility (so now they are Australians). Basically I was/am tired of the whole race thing, it didn't seem to be going away, so I left. :cool:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Hi ebgbs

I am white, British. I lived in Cape Town for many years, and I have NEVER been attacked in Cape Town, unfortunately I have seen considerable horrific violence there. For this reason, I decided that I could not risk the lives of my wife and children, and we returned to England, even though I had a prosperous life in the Cape.

I strongly suggest that you don't go, or at least leave the children with your Mum in the UK.

If you must go then go to a 'gated community', possibly at Century City if you can afford it. and get a panic button connected to 'armed response', Don't burn your bridges behind you, England will seem like paradise after you return from the Cape.:(

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Ebgbs. Has this man asked you to marry him? If not, what skills do you have to support yourself, and of course see if you qualify for a visa. Getting a job may well be a significant challenge for you.

Only way your children will get a decent education is to go private. They are quite pricey.

Crime is a huge factor, and one that is life altering in all you do. For you to make this giant leap into a very different way of life, with high risks requires a lot of research on your part. To even consider such a significant decision without doing your homework is foolhardy and most certainly a disservice to your children.

The romantic image you enjoy right now may well be blighted by the every day challenges of a restricted lifestyle.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

What if you went for a six months with the new guy and left the kids at home while you get the first-hand experience? You'll know much better after you've had your own boots on the ground.
My parents moved us away from the US when I was 8 & my sister 5. We had very limited resources and very little idea of what we were doing. While there were dangers and upsets, it all worked out in the end and the experience is irreplaceable.
Don't put all your eggs in the one basket (especially for a love interest).. keep your options open and money in reserve in case you have to leave quickly. There are ways for you to test the waters without jumping all the way in.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Stanley10, Uitlander, Tegwyn, Meauxna, You've all made really valuable contributions here-thank you kindly for your thoughts and diplomatic suggestions. I don't like the idea of leaving my children without me for more than a couple of days let alone weeks or months! I haven't had the opportunity tpo do this in the past and I guess this has quelled the inclination. However-were I able to cope with the separation the suggestion is a sensible and thought provoking one. Yes-my man and I are talking marriage-however has he/I proposed to one another yet? The answer is no! We've been together 1 year. Can I support myself? With AA, visa unknowns etc=probably not (I am an arts graduate so we though I may paint as I have done in the past). I think the bottom lline is could I survive a violent attack on myself-possibly (though even putting myself in the high possibility of attack bracket is crazy!), could I survive/cope with my children being hurt/killed-absolutely not-especially as it would be me that would be putting them in harms way!!!NOW THAT'S CRAZY AND BEYOND SELFISH HEY?! I thought perhaps I might hear that things aren't that bad or that there are specific safe areas or that I was being paranoid/over reacting! It is clear from answers to mine & others on this site that if anything I am not! However-my visit to this site has been a worthwhile one as it has made me realise more than ever that I cannot do this to my children-however much I love a man/he loves me & however heart broken we may both be-the kids come first! THANK YOU ALL

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

What was not said was how this op is able to take these kids out of the country without some input from the biological Dad. Written consent would be required for them to even begin the application process. I get a feeling this is more of romantic wishful thinking than a proper enquiry. There is a boatload of details to prepare for before beginning this process.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

NOW THAT'S CRAZY AND BEYOND SELFISH HEY?!
Yes,I think it would be.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

ebgbs Chasing the heart is not new, but once there are other people to consider (children) the rules change even if it is a hard choice. A white face trying to get a decent paying job in SA is going to be a huge challenge. Without a firm commitment from this man you care for, I highly suspect you will qualify for a visa on your own merits anyway. You will have to prove that you are financially viable and/or supported by another. Girlfriend status will not qualify you especially since you have dependent children.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

What about your kids father and his family, why would they agree to you taking their kids to a crime ridden place ?

What about you as a parent putting your children first ?
He is putting his child above you and your kids, and seems to have his priorities right.

Stop acting like a love sick teenager and wake up out of this bubble and see the reality. If he really loves you that much he will stay in the UK and visit SA to see his son when necessary and his son can always come and visit him.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Gotta agree with PG - the complications, risks, sacrifices and long term adjustments just do not add up.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Hi ebgbs,
We are in Jhb., and currently in the process of selling up because we want to leave SA! I have two children ages 6 and 9, and I can see how the daily living in fear is affecting them, and that is not right/fair. It's all they've known having been born here, but still it's sad to see that they cannot live in a more 'relaxed environment' when it is available outside of SA! My kids have never been on a bus or train because those are the type of things you just stay away from. How sad is that, that they've never experienced a train/bus ride?. In the UK schools, you have fire-drills in SA schools you have terrorist-drills plus armed guards at the entrance gate! My reasons for leaving SA are mainly because of the daily violent crimes that go on, and the constant living in fear and having to always be so 'alert', it gets very exhausting, another reason is, when my children reach their late teens and want to go out with friends to nightclubs etc., I wonder how I'll ever be able to sleep at night, we cannot stop our kids from 'living' but at the same time, living here, there are so many boundaries in their lives because of the crime, and I believe if we don't leave now, the kids will anyway in the future, when they are older - not much going on for them here. Friends of ours were chatting the other night and we all agreed that living in SA, you tend to over-protect your kids and they never really learn important life-skills or become 'street-wise'. Ultimately, we're giving up everything we have here for our kids and their futures. We owe it to them to have a 'normal' a life as possible.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Hello,

I just wanted to say that I am moving to Cape Town early next year with my partner. We don't have chdilren , but we're both really exicted about this new adventure. I've lived in South Africa for 4 years (03-07). I lived in Pretoria and Durban and have visited Cape Twon on loads of occasions. I never experienced or knew anyone who had experienced any serious crimes. I can't really offer you any advice except to say that as long as you take certain saftey precautions which are obvious and become second nature after a while, there is no reason why you shouldn't truly love south africa, and i think all that fresh air and sea and sand and sun is a wonderful place for two young children. Better than eating junk food in front of the playstation while it rains outside constantly! good luck with whatever you decide, but you should go with what you feel in your heart and i wouldn't compromise the love of my life for a few horror stories, which are often grossly exaggerated by South Africans who haven't lived in the country for a very long time!
All the best!!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

"few horror stories, which are often grossly exaggerated by South Africans who haven't lived in the country for a very long time! "

Anyone have a spare copy of Carnegies "How to win friends and Influence people?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Some would say not to comprise the safety of her children, I guess it depends where your priorities lie. Those that have a horror story to tell would not exaggerate it, there is no need, it's bad enough that they've been a victim of crime in the first place! What do you mean 'South Africans who haven't lived in the country for a very long time? Surely, if they are South Africans they have lived in the country since they were born? :confused:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I dn't know what is implyed by 'anyone got a spare voodoo doll'. I am merely talking about the scare storied related to me by the South Africans who live in London etc who take it upon themselves to make their home country sound absolutely terrifying. I do not deny that violence and crime is a problem. However, I have lived there for four years and can safely say i have had closer encounters with voilence in UK with drunken chavs than i ever did in south africa. I had to adjust my behviour to protect myself, once this was done and accepted I got on with enjoying being in one of the most beautiful countries in the world.