Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

How interesting to get such an upbeat blurb when the op herself does not live there currently. Yes, I suppose those of us with family and friends back there simply do not comprehend the fear, issues and crime our loved ones face every day. We should all heed a dew eyed daydreamer to sell a HCR soaped up version of happy days without any substance of what is really happening. ;)

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Certain precautions, like locking ourselves in sleeping quarters at night, tucked up in our own bed with the alarm on, dogs, GUN UNDER PILLOW, etc. and still getting invaded. Right, so what more could we have done to avoid that...?

To the unbelievers, you are most welcome to the country and enjoy, but please don't kid yourselves that it's all made up/exaggerated.

P.S. I LOVE SA, I don't hate it at all. But the home of my family and childhood is gone, you wouldn't get me raising my kids there, sorry, not in a million.

Last point, we live in the UK in a beautiful spot and are not in front of our xbox's all day long. We are outdoors, by the beach, hiking, waterfalls, garden, we just put our coats on!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Sabslee, I changed my request for a Voodoo doll as I really dont wish what we experienced,personally,and our friends still experience,on anyone.

I see you recommend taking certain precautions, would you mind describing them?

See on www.news24 that there is another Family in mourning, but I guess its exagerrated.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

All true, but who's listening? Increasingly I feel tempted to tell these aggressive head-in-the-clouders just to go and learn for themselves. If it blows up in their faces, well too bad. Lesson learnt.

It gives me no pleasure to say that the things that even the most pessimistic have predicated have come to pass -- only faster than even the worst predictions. Yes, while there's life there's hope, and all that. This is even true for utter basket-cases like Congo, and, alas, the once full-of-hope Zimbabwe (remember that, anyone?).

Anyone who is following the dire predictions on the economic front at the moment surely cannot sensibly countenance a move to the so-called developing world, unless they have vast resources.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I am South African, born in Port Elizabeth, then lived in Cape Town and then moved to Joburg for uni. In all the years that I was living there I have never experienced any crime. My husband, who is British, was living in Jhb with me until 4 weeks ago when we moved to the UK. He actually noted to his family last night that with all the horror stories he thought that he would see/experience more crime, but nada! You just have to be vigilant, as you always are wherever you go. I mean, I lived in Japan for 2 years and while that is relatively safe, you get a lot of stalkers.

Cape Town is beautiful!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Also, with regards to affirmative action, contrary to popular belief, it does not only affect the whites. I am coloured and I am way down on the list for jobs. During apartheid I was not white enough, now I am not black enough. But that having been said, it is necessary to balance the logistics.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

The suggestion that if you are vigilant you will be safe is a dishonest sleight of hand.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Each to their own. It worked for me and my family.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Trouble is, you don't know that. If you think about it, you can see that the one does not lead to the other. A false conclusion.

1. I was vigilant
2. I wasn't attacked

Is not the same as
1. I was vigilant
THEREFORE
2. I wasn't attacked.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

THis is a interesting (and depressing) debate: 'aggressive head-in-the-clouders just to go and learn for themselves'. Clearly this was meant for me. I HAVE been and I HAVE learnt for myself.. AND i can't wait to return. Thanks to G-Harvey's contribution I can go back to being over the moon that I'm about to start a new life in Cape Town. You seem like the anti-advocates for South Africa squad! I think the country has enough issues without that as well.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I am envious of this poster's good fortune with(out) crime, but that's all it is - random luck.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I cannot agree with you more. Glad that many of them have left the country too. SA doesn't need all this negatives!

Some people aren't worth arguing with.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

You sound familiar. I for one do not discourage people from going, but I am not prepared to be censored on the grounds that South Africa has "enough issues".

To those who speculate about going to live there, I say what I have always said. Inform yourself, read the newsfeeds, talk to South Africans, go and visit, preferably for more than just a week on some kind of dream holiday, and do your best to assess your own motivations and the situation soberly.

If a poster tells me, "I worry sick about crime, even in the UK" then it is fair to say they are likely to worry themselves even sicker in a place like South Africa.

But some are prepared to run the risks with open eyes, and I do not wish to discourage such people.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

A point that Brits in the UK tend to forget.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

G-Harvey thank thank you for being a South African in the UK who can be positive about your country!

Also, I wouldn't say its random luck NOT be a victim of a serious crime, but very unlucky to be a victim of one. It's not the norm, just more common than in other more developed, better resourced countries. And of course it's fair to voice your opinions, but i think when they come from a very personal experience it's important to try and be objective about the situation.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

What would you say it is then?

What would "the norm" be?

As opposed to your view? Which comes from where?

Though I do not include myself in this category, there are people who have posted here who have been the victims of truly terrifying ordeals. It seems to me that it trivialises these ordeals to dismiss them as "very personal". I cannot conceive of such a thing being anything else but "very personal."

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Okay last post from me:
Firstly my views come from 2 years in Durban and 2 years in Pretoria and Joburg and additional travel through SA and all over Africa. I'm not sure you feel that qualifies me to have an opinion but that makes up almost half my adult life.

In terms of luck I mean you are not statistically more likely to be a victim of serious violent crime than you are to NOT be a victim of violent crime. So your unlucky if you are...not lucky if you arn't. That's how i see it. But i also agree that taking all the neccesary precautions won't keep you safe ultimately.

But then i don't have the same 'fear of crime' as some people and i don't let that fear control my life but i certainly keep informed about it!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I do not think there is any country on the planet where you are statistically more likely to be a victim of serious crime than not. So that means very little.

Still, I wish you luck and success in your new venture. Goodbye.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Sabslee, I dont care wether you go back to SA or not. It does not affect me.
Your first post you stated:
"few horror stories, which are often grossly exaggerated by South Africans who haven't lived in the country for a very long time! "

This has now changed to"Firstly my views come from 2 years in Durban and 2 years in Pretoria and Joburg and additional travel through SA"

"But i also agree that taking all the neccesary precautions won't keep you safe ultimately. "

Do you always try and extuingish a fire with Petrol??
If you had bothered to read a bit more rather than starting off with branding people with a lot more experience of the good and bad of SA as liars, you may well have had a different reception.

In the midst of the Political Violence I caight a Putco bus from Maseru to Johannesburg,we passed through the Vaal Triangle where rampaging youths were looting and Necklacing people.
Fortunately for me, the People on the bus, who happened to be black, hid me under Blankets and bags when the Thugs boarded the Bus looking for IFP supporters.

In retrospect it was stupid,but,as I had often traversed Africa by bus,it seemed a good idea at the time.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

That is the clincher is it not?? I can tell you about a nephew being shot. He also was carjacked. Can actually tell you about quite a few people that were carjacked. Can tell you about dear friends whose lives have been turned upside down since losing their daughter to a home invasion. She was gang raped and lost her unborn baby. Ultimately took her own life as she was so disturbed by the event. Can tell you about other loved ones that were robbed but just are thankful they were not home at the time. Can also tell you of umpteen people that have approached my husband for help in finding employment here in the States because they want to live in safety after an event - or being retrenched and replaced with someone with significantly less qualifications and skills than they do. What is it that these people know that you don't?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Certainly wasn't suggesting you are all liars. And apologies to those who I have offended. This wasn't what I signed up for and thought the thread was to discuss good points about cape town. I will be deleting my account.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I'm sorry, but this time I really must protest. This is not the only recent instance of someone arriving on this list, firing a few vaguely argued pot-shots, then finding that they are met with disagreement, and then retreating under the pretence that they have somehow or other been picked on, affecting to be hurt or offended. I really am beginning to think there is some commonality to these ephemeral appearances. What Daxk said is entirely true and fair. You have trivialised the experiences of others, and elevated your own, and then behave as if you have somehow been treated unfairly.

There are plenty of places where you can go and read "good news" about South Africa - there are sites (which you may already have heard of) which are devoted to that very thing. It is my opinion that at least some of those sites beguile and deceive vulnerable and ignorant people by using various lame arguments which do not stand up to examination. But whatever one thinks of those sites, the fact is that there are endless places to go where one can read up the "good news". Now, conversely, why you should have thought that a thread entitled "Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!" would not touch upon the question of crime is beyond me.

So by all means go - with my blessing and good wishes - if that counts for anything in this ghastly remote world we now live in. But do not play the tricks one finds elsewhere, and try to deceive the innocent.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

So you run because you don't like the responses.:rolleyes: Here are the facts. Cape Town is a stunning city and many of those I hold dear live there. A place I had hoped to return to - to retire someday but know that the way things are going, I have a better chance of living my life where I am now. SA is a stunningly beautiful country but society and the value of life is abnormal. That is the reality and anyone that heads into that country should know before venturing there.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I think the problem with these threads is that the majority of users posting are people who have left South Africa for a number of reasons e.g crime and you are ths recieving a very biased view on South Africa and Cape Town in particular.

I live in Cape Town, the Northern suburbs in specific and have never been the victim of any violent crime. The only crime I have come in n contact is burglary. Once our home was burgled while we were building and another time while we were on holiday. Both burglaries were minor and not much was stolen.

Yes, there is a lot of violent crime in Cape Town, but the odds are greatly in your favour that you willl not experience it, especially if you live sensibly. Crime is far more prevalent in the squatter camps are townships.

Statistics wise Cape Town is not really worse off crime wise that many large US cities.

I see previous posters mentioned living only in gated communities - This is living in fear. many gated communities still fall victim to crime for the very reason that people believe that they are perfectly safe and as such do not take proper precautions.

A lot of it is in the ind, if you feel that you will live in constant fear, you should not come here, your fear will just attract bad situations to you. Rather come here and see the positives of yyour move.

Cape Town is perfectly safe for children particularily if you live in the better suburbs. Understanding that there lifestyle will however be diffrenet that to what it would have been in England.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

You may want to get an unbiased view of crime statistics in SA. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...ers-per-capita I've added this link to youtube to watch an unbiased media coverage of why people have left SA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfVqN0XUqYs

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Perhaps you should ask Mitsy to check on them, it seems to be a standard request when someone positive comes on. Perhaps there is a conspiracy? :rofl:
Perhaps they have been treated unfairly, personally I believe they have. :(


Why should they go elsewhere, isn't this a site for British Expats with an interest in SA, there must be hundreds of thousands of them some of whom feel positive about the place. Why should they be hounded from this website? :thumbdown:

I take it from your earlier post that you have not been attacked in Cape Town. :cool:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Nobody is being hounded off this site. We don't agree with their opinions but that is not blowing them off. Why not substantiate their claims instead of running away when they can't argue the merits?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Why do they need to argue the merits?

Q: Anyone living in Cape Town?

Ans: Yep, been here 4 years, love it to bits, fantastic. :thumbsup:

Easy. ;)

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Okay, I ain't going anywhere. Indeed I do feel hounded, i do feel hurt and offended. I have never ever trivialised anyones trauma. Clearly a pattern emerges that whenever anyone feels they have something great to say about SA they get slammed down with terrible stories and made to feel like they are naive and what was it an "aggressive head in the-clouder",who should go and leanr for herself just how terrible it all is..... I was even threatened with Voodoo!! That is dispicable!

'vulnerable and ignorant' people. How condescending is that?!? They may indeed be adventurous and strong willed, intelligent people who in their quest to find unbiased views of SA have had the misfortune of stumbling upon this site. Can't you do something more constructive with your time than rubbishing South Africa?

Thanks Stanley for the back-up. I would like to hear more from Brits and South Aficans living in South Africa, and a little less from those who have moved on, and seem to think they are the only ones qualified to comment.

And Pablo - I'm sorry but you only have yourself to blame for putting yourself in that situtaion, was that a necesasry journey, don't you read the papers?!

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Oh Stanley, you do love to stir up trouble. But I'm not going to be drawn.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Not condescending at all.

I don't know what you're referring to. What journey?

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Oh please! What I have said is that in the end there is no substitute for going and finding out for oneself. I have not said "learn for oneself how terrible it is". Those are your words, not mine.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

SabsLee
Okay, I ain't going anywhere. Indeed I do feel hounded, i do feel hurt and offended. I have never ever trivialised anyones trauma.


Perhaps a refresher course would be in order. You will note that the op had been asking about Anyone NOT being attacked in Cape Town? Perhaps that is because she has heard from so many that have left for those types of reasons, which you in your wisdom have decided to determine are grossly exaggerated. Not only that, you have also inferred that they no longer have input because they left long ago. They do go back and see family - often, like I do so you should never assume. You have been fortunate to having a positive experience so far, and bully for you, but do NOT trivialize the extend of the effect of being subjected to a crime. Once you walk in their shoes, you will fully comprehend the impact.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I know you can read Stanley. Observe title of thread.;) Why not argue the merits when you know glossing over some very relevant facts are intentionally being avoided. Fact. SA has a high crime rate, and needs to be noted in the choices you make. Unfortunate fact that no amount of pretty pictures can deny.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

Tegwyn, I am very sorry for what you have experienced. And i never meant to trivialise anyone's trauma. I have had my fair share of trauma through car crashes and cancer, but i don't blame my country for them or try to make people petrified of them happening! I have also been mugged at knife point in durban. It was to me a random event, no-one was hurt and the perpetrators were caught almost instantly. I still maintain that many responses here are exaggerated. To be asked if you've packed your bullet proof vest when you talk about moving to Cape town is absurd (and destructive) quite frankly.

This is not personal Tegwyn, it's an interesting debate, but i feel like i'm getting a good dressing down from you for my opinions, and that is simply not fair.
By the way - those cirme stats you added. What proportion are british expats - just out of interest? I don't know, but i wonder if it's enough to warrant this discussion on a forum designed for their information.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

No, I think some people are disagreeing with you, and you don't like it.

Is this really a serious question?

If the answer were "zero", would that mean that discussion of crime in South Africa should be banned from this list? When a person emigrates to South Africa, do you suppose that the criminals make a determination of the immigration status of their victims before attacking? Of course not. If you live there, you're in the same boat as the rest, except that you have a British passport and can get out quickly if you need to.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

I have only called you on it based on assumptions of the people responding negatively. My personal experiences with crime actually happened in Zambia and that is a far safer country than SA will ever be at this rate. My family members and friends have experienced their horror stories in SA and far worse than I could ever comprehend. I know far too many people that left because they felt they had to versus those just wanting to explore the world. The exodus (brain drain) speaks for itself. My connections to SA run far and deep so please don't patronize me. I am not a walking wounded but would most certainly describe myself as a realist.
Anyone that goes to that country needs to be prepared for the fact that regardless of the geographical beauty, the way you live your life will change dramatically.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

By the way - those crime stats you added. What proportion are british expats - just out of interest?

I'll answer that question to some degree to give the op more clarity. You will note that my nick is Tegwyn. Not exactly a South African name, and my symbol is a dragon. Dead giveaway as to where in the UK I originate.

There are many British expats just like us that headed over to the Copper Belt (Zambia, Zims) back in the 50's and 60's when job opportunities enticed them over. These areas as well as South Africa used to be termed Tropical Britain based on the sheer numbers of expats living there. Then, their children grew up and built their lives around other expats and South Africans to have the type of British/South African integration you have today. It therefore would be impossible to pull up statistics on the percentages of nationalities being attacked. A criminal usually doesn't give a toss anyway.

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

OK, so lets try again:

Q: Anyone not been attacked in Cape Town?

Ans: Currently living there and nothing to date, love the weather, lifestyle etc. ;)

No ones disputing the high crime rate, but that wasn't the question. :cool:

Re: Anyone NOT been attacked in Cape Town?!
 

So that a definite not. :)